Zakum Jump Quest alternative

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Enticing, Aug 11, 2015.

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  1. Katsuruka
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    The alternative that Andreas mentions here is my idea, currently in need of a lot more work from me to turn it into something I can properly submit to the rest of the staff for their approval or otherwise.

    I had planned not to mention my idea outside of the staff until I had a fully fledged proposal to submit. However, since the subject has been brought up, I may as well mention it here. Obviously, I'm not going to go into any detail, though! =)

    As someone who finds ZJQ evilly hard and stressful, I'd probably choose to do the jump quest in preference to the long and extremely hard questline that I have in mind as the alternative on the grounds that the jump quest is actually easier, even for someone like me who can take upwards of 9 hours to complete the JQ (the time I got dc-ed 20 times by the server during the JQ took longer)! Having said that, I'd probably also want to complete the alternative once, just for the challenge!

    If we were sticking with our current version of the game, I wouldn't have proposed an alternative, for pretty much the reasons you give. However, since we'll be moving to a new source which contains some aspects of v.0.83, that changes things for me. In v.0.83 proper, players who couldn't do ZJQ and who couldn't get certain 4th job skill books did have an alternative - Scissors of Karma. As already stated by Matt in a New Source status update post, we will not be getting Scissors of Karma - a decision that I am fully in agreement with as I would hate to see a situation where level 10 skill books and Zhelms could be sold in Hired Merchants and a lot of players would pretty much be able to skip Zakum. I really don't want to see a scenario where any level 50 with enough Mesos can just buy their Zhelm and level 10 skill books so easily. However, as someone who couldn't do ZJQ until this year, I also know the sinking feeling that your character will be perpetually stuck without a Zhelm and - in some cases, massively important - level 10 4th job skill books. In the real version 0.83, this barrier to progress no longer existed. This is why I started devising a possible alternative to ZJQ which, unlike SoK, would be challenging and would still require you to complete the other Zakum prequests and actually go to Zakum.

    I struggled a lot with ZJQ due to having double vision (seeing a rope where it isn't as well as where it is = confusing) and a bunch of cognitive difficulties including fractured attention span and short-term memory loss (which also makes it virtually impossible for me to follow video guides for anything). I also hit the wrong direction key on an infuriatingly regular basis (and not just during jump quests) which may or may not be sucky hand-eye co-ordination. It sounds like I still had a somewhat easier time than you, but yes, completing ZJQ was a huge achievement for me, as you'll probably already know, as you were one of those who helped me get my first Zhelm <3

    For me, however, I don't feel that it would take away from my determination to succeed and eventual achievement if there was an alternative. There are two reasons for this:
    1) The alternative I have in mind would also be extremely challenging and, as I've said, definitely not preferable to the ZJQ for most people;
    2) The option to do ZJQ and experience that amazing feeling of achievement would still be there, and could be taken. If people want to go Zak regularly with their guild, they're most likely going to have to complete the Zakum prequests several times to get the required items to forge more EoFs. Being able to do ZJQ would make this a whole lot easier for most people.

    To anyone who finds the ZJQ relatively easy or even do-able, or who assumes that everyone is able to follow a video* guide: remember, each individual is different.

    * You should see how many attempts it takes me to understand what's going on in a half-hour anime episode, lol!
     
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  2. ben259
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    finish zak jumpquests, or any jump quests for that matter, is what separates the men from the boys
     
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  3. Dimitri
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    Dimitri Saint of Horses

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    Yes, though you never told me the details I'm well aware it took you a long time to complete the zjq ! :)
    But that's not why I'm replying ^^ , the reason I am replying is because I had a conversation about this feedback thread yesterday with Courtney and in the end I said something along the lines of: Don't get me wrong, if people can be creative and suggest an equally challenging or even more challenging but in a different kind of way pre-quest as an alternative, I'd love to see the suggestion. I'm just really against the idea of getting a grindy questline that anyone in the world could complete by investing x time and thus make the zjq a less appealing option to most of the community. The pre-quest is supposed to be challenging right? ^^

    I just wanted to share that to let you know I am not 100% against the idea of an alternative (99% haha! jk), just that the alternatives suggested before did not sound like an equal or more of a challenge than the current zjq.
     
  4. Cait2244
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    I'm a bit on the fence on this. I absolutely despise having to do the ZJQ. It's the one instance where I've found myself being like "hey, I wish it was okay to let someone do this for me." I've only ever been able to complete it once so far, and that one time took me four hours (not including an earlier dc), the video guide, and three of my friends right there with me helping and making jests at my inability to do it (a bunch of them even finished it several times while we were there lol). However, when I was -finally- able to do it after all that time, effort, stress, etc it felt like a huge accomplishment. I was really happy that I finished it, and all my friends were impressed that I hadn't just given it up. For that reason I kind of feel like it should stay as it is because that is just an awesome feeling. Not to mention that it brought everyone together, some who didn't even know each other, and now they've bonded over the experience as well.

    However, for players who might have medical reasons for doing it I do feel as if there should be an alternative. Maybe that alternative is just an alternate version of the map with different colors or indicators that this is the right rope, etc, but there should be something. It's really not fair that those players are kept back from an integral part of the game, and what many might call the "end game." A lot of people level up there characters just to be able to boss. In my opinion it kind of takes away some of the point of leveling your character if you can't do that.
     
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  5. Katsuruka
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    The problem with just doing an alternative version of the map is that there are a lot of different possible medical issues that could make the jump quest impossible or excessively difficult for certain players. Issues with differentiating different shades of red is only one of these possible conditions and it wouldn't be possible to create an alternative map for someone who has - for example - major problems with hand-eye co-ordination due to a medical condition. This is why I came up with the idea for a questline that nobody would want to do unless they absolutely had to.
     
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  6. Enticing
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    Enticing Donator

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    Until a Miracle occured a few days ago, I had NEVER completed the ZJQ on my own. I never thought I would ever complete it. Until I actually did. Infact I did it less than 20 minutes and didnt even get hung up at the final set of ropes like Ive heard so many people had. My opinon on the JQ has certainly changed since I was finally able to complete it. I no longer believe it impossible to be done by myself.

    But I still hate it and still believe there needs to be an alternative to it. Its frustrating, irritating, infuriating at times and in my opinion the least fun thing that I've ever had to deal with in Maplestory. Even the NPC asks if you are ready to complete the hardest test of your life. He's basically like "I know dude, I know"

    Its a unique gate to get items that are borderline mandatory in progressing your character. If you are unable to complete the JQ for any reason you are unable to improve or progress your character. We play on a server that has the ability to adapt to things like this and thankfully has dev's who are open to the idea of making Quality of life changes to help make the game more enjoyable. I saw an example of a QoL change recently when I went to make my 3rd job advancement. When I went to the stone to answer the questions I was plesantly suprised to see there was only two simple questions. Not 10 different questions or w/e it used to be. While this isnt a change to the extent that id like to see with the JQ, it represents an attempt at making things a bit less stressful.

    Again, I was not and will not ask for the JQ to be removed or altered. I want an alternative to it that is equally as frustrating and potentiall more time consuming to complete. It keeps the wall of difficulty inplace but you now have choices and doesnt cheapen the experience of running Zak in any fashion which is something I absolutely do not want to happen. If you enjoy or even dislike the JQ or but would prefer to do the JQ then this change would not affect you in the least. Even if you are looking to farm the Eyes of Fire the JQ will still be the quicker route to doing this. If you are however someone who hates this challenge and prefers to go about it in a different way, which will be equally if not more frustrating but not based on your level of stress managment or patience to do JQ's, and would be likely spending more time collecting drops and completing additional steps of the Zak quest chain in order to appease the devil himself Adobis then this is for you.

    In regards to the ease of availablity that a lot of untradeable loot saw in v.83 with the release of SoK's I do not believe those changes were ever good ones. I came back to play for a short period of time after these changes were made and I felt it really negatively impacted the role that Bosses had in the game. It made the items and Spells a much more common commodity and made bosses like Zak and HT almost pointless to do.

    It makes me happy to know my suggestion might actually help put something into motion. Id be more than willing to help test any potential quest chain you might want to put into place.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
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  7. maggles
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    +1, in my opinion 999 bain collars is not a suitable alternative.
    it could be farmed by bishops, put in fm, etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
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  8. Enticing
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    Enticing Donator

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    I believe it would have to be a unique drop that cant be sold.
     
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  9. maggles
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    If the alternative was to farm 999 etc drops, i'm sure no one would be doing the jump quest (besides the players that can complete it without falling).

    In my opinion a suitable substitute has to be an alternative with equal difficulty or even harder difficulty. If it is harder, it will incentivise people to complete the jump quest rather than the alternative, which would really make it more of an alternative.
     
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  10. Jace
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    I was thinking something with a higher rarity (think Gold teeth vs. regular teeth) would make the process really time consuming. Preferably it'd take more than a few days (maybe a week but it'd be a stretch) to collect all the drops, which would make the JQ way more desirable for anyone. It's just meant as a last-resort for people who can't do the JQ at all.

    EDIT: I should mention that this should substitute the JQ only, and stages 1 and 3 would still need to be completed.
     
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  11. Katsuruka
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    Oh, even that would be too easy! I have something harder in mind =)
     
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  12. Joong
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    Sweet, Kat! Now make it happen; I know you can do it! :D
     
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  13. Wallou
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    Wallou Well-Known Member

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    Because Royals removed some of the things that people hated from the old Maple, i.e the 30 minute ship rides and insanely slow leveling for nearing end game. Basically improving upon what our old experiences were.
     
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  14. Yan
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    There is nothing wrong with oldmaple. they did not removed anything hated, well,ships are not that bad.
    Anyway it's ur opinion, my point is, zakum quest is something you have to do to be able to achieve ur helm, and if it was that hard, belive me nexon / wizet would removed it long time ago, GPQ jqs are way harder..
     
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  15. Andreas
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    If you haven't noticed all changes I seen them do has one motive, money... so of course they don't change it, instead they introduced sok so you can pay2win.
    I don't see that as a good reason for not having an alternative.

    You say we play for nostalgia, nostalgia wouldn't keep me playing for this long.
    Change is not bad just because it wasn't in the original.
     
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  16. Yan
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    Have you played post bb? There is no challenge. And its not pay2win, ive zakked at gms since it was out (3rd job runs) and nobody complained.
    So keep up the challenge is good. V83 is good enough change.
     
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  17. Rob
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    Well as has been mentioned, Scissors of Karma were out in v83, which we won't be getting. Those completely remove the challenge of zakum for many people; so having a difficult alternative to the zjq would hardly get rid of the challenge. You still would have to Zak and do a dificult pre quest.
     
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  18. Andreas
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    Do you mean before BB? cause i'm pretty sure post BB had potential, cubes and that's pay2win.

    If you read the responses you will see that the alternative will not be easier than the jump quest.
    This isn't GMS who cares if no one complained there, there is a reason for this thread.

    EDIT: Account sharing was allowed ~f3
     
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  19. Manezu
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    I also struggeled 5 days with my last mule till i finished zak JQ (ragequit, no motivation etc). I realy think everyone who can without health problems (visual n stuff) should do it atleast once. Its amazing once you complete. On the other hand i dont wanna do it with another mule to get a Zhelm.
    Plus the Idea from Katsuruka sounds very interesting. A long Quest row maybe with some fictional Story to get prepared for Zakum. I realy would do that :D. I also never saw the need of Jumping between plattforms as a Boss Preparation ... You dont need Jump Skills for Zak.
     
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