Why not make cwk 5man at this point

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Kharnage, Apr 5, 2021.

?

5man cwk

  1. Stay 10man min

    67 vote(s)
    33.5%
  2. Change to 5man

    133 vote(s)
    66.5%
  1. Jen123
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    Jen123 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a good compromise could be 1 of each class to finish all the unique rooms but 10 TOTAL signs. That way you can run with 10 unique players without minding too much what their class is, which is much more inclusive than it is currently, with people smegaing specifically for mules of the least popular classes like archers or pirates.
     
  2. Jen123
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    Jen123 Well-Known Member

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    Changes should definitely be discussed, but again, why does it matter if there are more runs in general? You keep repeating that the people who are currently barred from CWK because of lack of mules will be able to run if GMs implement less strict entry requirements. Enlighten me. What are the pros/cons to these people being able to access this content? It doesn't matter if you're for or against this change. Anything would be more useful than arguing over how many runs any one specific player can do with the characters they currently have.
     
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  3. Vector Ho
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    Vector Ho Donator

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    Simple: more runs, more Bonus items. When something is common, its price decreases
     
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  4. Geazy
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    Geazy Well-Known Member

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    Well, purely from an economic perspective, the more the supply the lower the price, but my issue is not with those who are now able to access this content, my issue is with those who prior to this change maybe ran 2 total runs (1x CWK with 2x entry per char) of cwk a day, and now able to run 6 times instead joining 5 man pub cwk runs
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
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  5. Donn1e
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    Most people who run more than one CWK a day have all the needed signs.
    It won't let those people run more really, since you usually just sign the mules and then go in on your attackers only + a bishop.
    So it's only about how many functioning attackers you have, since the sign mules can just be reused.
     
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  6. Saledor
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    Saledor Donator

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    I said this many times in my replies above but no one seems to understand.

    They ask again and again though.

    If this doesnt pose a problem to the economy or the potential of players getting progress too quickly and hence quitting due to boredom, I'll say this could be a welcomed change. But as explained several times above in my replies, its more than just the convenience of players running cwkpq that we have to worry about.

    And that, is what they dont get.
     
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  7. Jen123
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    Jen123 Well-Known Member

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    I've already commented on this point as selfish thinking before. I don't see the price of BoN goods/VIP MoN decreasing as a problem. Markets will always adjust to whatever happens in the game. HT books temporarily became more expensive when they changed cr to require an 'active' pally and tt30 dropped because of thief nerf. Just because you aren't happy with the potential drop in prices doesn't mean other people should suffer from not be able to participate in content.
     
  8. Cooler
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    Cooler Donator

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    Actually it means those that 3-5 man can run 2-3x more than people without alts

    This is actually the main problem. And people need to stop saying mules for cwkpq. They are all almost alts, not mules. Stop saying mules lol. Almost nobody is making a 130+ char and doing those annoying cwk pres just for a sign mule when you can invite a friend or pay an apple. almost all extra signs are alts.

    I've been in and close to groups who have perfectly cornered CWK, run at the same time each night. If anyone drops out, they all have an alt to make up. If this same group only needed 5 signs, all their alts could now be organized to run 4 runs total, probably 6 runs total of they want. That's not better for newer players.

    Like I said in my first post, it just widens the gap between those who can, a who can't, will hugely devalue the many treasures in bonus (which I personally don't really care about. There's already 10 pages worth of BFC not selling if you owl), which is why I said in my first post 5 man's should have much lowered pq time limit than regular 10 man, so it's not as exploitable
     
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  9. ControladorMidi
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    ControladorMidi Donator

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    Just whisper to your friend "can u bring sign for me haha"
    If u dont have friends, smega "B>pirate sign 1 apple"
    If u dont wanna do that, then u arent interested enough to DrywoodKPQ
     
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  10. MaiAh
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    MaiAh Well-Known Member

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    not all mules around are bloodwashed, good SCG set that can be transfered + mediocre weap,mon-htp,zak-scar,rings....is more then enough to make "mules" on onyx very good attackers
    but yea for casual players that just look for fun teamplay this won't change anything for us just less mulestory stress,

    i will say again instead of opening the gate for mulestory meta to abuse and kill the fun for all other even more why not make CWK bonus room and boss drop more things based on amount of players inside actively participating
    or disable sign muleing unfavorable opinion that is inevitable

    we started with 8man + 2mules(mages) to 3-4man + mules.... and we still keep destorying it and make it less joyful & rewarding
     
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  11. Jen123
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    Jen123 Well-Known Member

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    If you have 10 people who all want to participate in cwk but cannot enter because of overlapping signs or missing specific classes, can you really say they are less interested in the pq than a party of 2-3 people who cwk daily? And in terms of the server's health, how is it healthy to have content that is gated from your players? Is that not why GMs are trying to help players with low hp so the casual players can also access all the content?
     
  12. Jen123
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    Jen123 Well-Known Member

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    It's true that not all mules are bloodwashed but proper attackers are significantly different from sign mules. If they wanted to run on both their main and alt attacker to do two 4-5 man runs (4-6 hours of runs) instead of doing a 2-3 man run (2-3 hours of runs), they could have already done so. It isn't just sign restraints but most people wouldn't prefer to do that because of time restraints, especially when you consider how boxes are split.
    3 man runs: 10 boxes * 2 runs = 20 boxes
    4 man runs: 7.5 boxes*2 runs * 2 separate parties = 30 boxes
    5 man runs: 6 boxes * 2 runs * 2 separate parties = 24 boxes
    Yes, in total you'll get 4-10 boxes extra but for an added 2-3 hours? Is that really worth it? If all the boxes could be hit during a 2 man run, that would be the same number of boxes as two 4 man runs but in half the time. Also, if they have so many strong attackers they might as well solo ht and hope for mw20, you get to keep all 1.7b yourself. Although you might run with people who are funded enough to have all these alt attackers, I run with the nl with the bloodwashed SE, the odd person that brings in their archmage, the warrior that created an SI mule, etc. Those half-washed level 90 characters or bloodwashed mules really aren't contributing in the boss stage.
     
  13. ControladorMidi
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    ControladorMidi Donator

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    If u get 10 people interested on CWKPQ, sadly u'll have to remove some of them to make a party. But this also happens on every boss, you wont be able to bring everyone if u get 9 players interested on HT but only 1 BS,. And like i said, if u need sign just buy them on smega or ask for a friend to sign for free. (Those days i did a 4 man CWKPQ and one of my friends joined with a NL + a friend to sign for him)
     
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  14. Jen123
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    Jen123 Well-Known Member

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    That isn't necessarily the case. I've run very large (~8 people) cwk parties and we never excluded anyone just because we had too many people. The only reason we couldn't include certain people was because they "weren't the right sign" which isn't a good excuse but because of the entry requirements we did need to include certain people simply because they had the right job for the run. The only reason you would actively exclude unique players, if it isn't because they aren't the right sign to enter, and replace said active players in favour of sign mules is to get more of a split. Also, I have been in HT parties with 12 character parties (8-10 unique players) and again you don't NEED to exclude anyone, you just choose to exclude because you want more of a split. Well why don't you give people who don't care about the split the option to enter cwk with a larger group like they can with ht? Yes I could smega and yes I could ask a friend, but there are times when no one replies to smega and no friend of the appropriate class is available. Am I supposed to smega for 15-30 minutes until we find someone or just give up on the run?
     
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  15. MaiAh
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    MaiAh Well-Known Member

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    HT and CWK is not fair to compare here
    i've never seen 3-5man CWK that takes 4-6h (unless you meant for 2 runs back to back but even then those are extremely rare case most if not all are done with 1-3 onyx per run )
    you are also mixing "sign mules" and "mules" that are actually alts waiting to get SCG set from the "main" char
    because once "mains" are used they can't be sign for their "alts" anymore (unless you make more mules...)

    i understand your point guys i kinda like it to be 5man aswell ( if we are locked to 1-2 run per user somehow)
    the 10man (with or without mules) is kinda last gate that makes CWK somewhat "alive" and "nostalgic " is CrimsonWood Keep Party Quest
    we need to keep that PQ part and encourage & reward more that not mules and shortcuts to bonus stage
     
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  16. Kharnage
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    Kharnage Donator

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    idk i dont really see this as a problem 1 run will be atleast 40-60mins turning this into a fulltime job people make more mesos/hour selling leech for silly hours
     
  17. Cooler
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    Cooler Donator

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    irrelevant.
    Like gambling at gach, you can still stand to make a lot more money (and exp) this way. Its unlikely BFC/specs will drop that severely since w.att/hp common eq is extremely pricey for all but three classes, same for godly specs, and this still greatly benefits those who are able to run even more because of alts, than those who can only do 1-2 on one char maybe once a day.
     
  18. GunzGaming
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    @Cooler. Most people with tons of alts that I know still only run 2 times a day. And if you want to run 6+ times a day if you have 3 alts, It's VERY easy as it is right now by just joining parties or making your own. Especially if you farm hearts for the whole party. I used to do this. It sucked I don't recommend people only cwkpq all day.

    I feel like this is focusing on the people with tons of alts instead of how much of an effective QoL change this is for people who don't have tons of mules and don't want to form giant parties that usually just end up with people stealing mons or bon anyways. This is mostly due to the just the general dislike of people who use tons of mules and how much they achieve but that aside. 5 signs does not change much in terms of how players can abuse it, it's the same as is now, use mules to circumvent the design.
     
  19. Kharnage
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    Kharnage Donator

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    The reason why i thought of this change was just so when i feek up for cwk i could just get a small group of people together and run it without of the bother of bringing mules
    I have alot of mule most done prequest it doesnt mean i want to log them on and move them to cwk every time i want to cwk only to log them off again just to sign
     
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  20. Cooler
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    Cooler Donator

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    Have to disagree, alot of what you said breaks down on itself. Just because people you know do 1-2 doesn't mean everyone couldn't do 4-6 easy, and it would be worth it for above avg gear. If you have 3 or more alts, the 5 man just makes it even easier, that's a backwards appeal.
    Nobody has to farm hearts alone either, that's a choice you and your party makes. Either one person will ahead of time, or everyone will at once and be done in 5-10 minutes, or you farm them to sell them, which is also just a choice you make if it's 5 or 10 man.

    I've never seen a mon or bon get stolen bit when it happens the person gets fucked, it's not common at all, so not a factor wether it's 5 or 10, it could happen in either.

    This isn't dislike about those who have alts, it's that they will most benefit from 5 man, not people without alts looking for parties. 5sign makes it twice as easy to run, and twice as many chars/alts that can run. If the people who corner CWK in small parties already could run more with more chars, they would.

    It wouldn't really help new players that much either, the bosses have a lot of hp and can be super annoying. I really don't see new players wanting to spend two hours doing one run, one nl, one bm, one warrior, one brawler on bottom. You forget it's one of each class, meaning it will always be

    One BS (support)
    On warrior (dk or hero, paladin will NOT make 5 man, we all know why, so paladin = excluded, same reason f/p+I/l are)
    One archer
    Thief and pirate will have to exclude someone
    If sair, brawler cant help warrior/bottom. If shad, NL can't help top, meaning you will need a sair because archer can't duo top meaning no brawler for bottom.
    Makes it very unlikely sairs, shads and sometimes brawlers, and def no paladins or archmages can run 5man
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
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