What is deemed as RWT/joke ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aestel, Sep 20, 2020.

  1. Aestel
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    Aestel Well-Known Member

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    Disclaimer: I have the full screenshot of the report, but I'm just curious as to what is deemed as a joke/taken seriously. Hopefully, staff can clear up the misunderstanding. Whether the mentioned players get banned or not have 0 impact on me. However, I hope that this discussion will make the rule less ambiguous. Thanks

    Context:
    This is a conversation between player A & B in all chat.

    A: gimmie a tp rock
    B: demanding af
    A: I'm broke
    B: 1x selfie
    A: ouch, fine, give me 2 rocks then.
    B: Look at her selling herself.
    A: 2 rocks 1 selfie LOL.

    Reply I got from a GM that will not be named
    upload_2020-9-21_1-33-41.png

    My reply
    upload_2020-9-21_1-34-1.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  2. foobaka
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    foobaka Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why you're salty about this, especially trying to "rwt joke" for teleport rocks, which is almost nothing compared to the MANY illicit items out there, but, can we as a community be less toxic and not report individuals for stupid shit like this? I mean, c'mon, you're trying to get someone banned permanently (or even 30 days) for needing TP rocks because he/she doesn't have the 3m or even 1k NX while there are RWTers/hackers still around. What you're trying to do clearly defines your hunger for power and probably the reason why you applied for GM.
     
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  3. Aestel
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    Aestel Well-Known Member

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    Is it because it was 2 teleport rocks? What if it was perfect weapon, will the situation be different? From your statement, I'm assuming you are advocating this statement and allowing it to pass as a joke? If someone steals money, it might be because he can't afford food or just for fun, he is still breaking the rule. But like I said, whether the mentioned players get banned or not have 0 impact on me because it isn't really that game-breaking. What I want to confirm is whether this kind of jokes is allowed? No idea why you trying to throw personal insults.

    edit: I just want to know how far this "joke" can be taken before it becomes an offence.
     
  4. MethCoffee
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    MethCoffee Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's not very consistent and seem to be up to GM's discretion, like many other things.

    I thought RWT jokes weren't allowed? Is it or is it not?
     
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  5. nosebleed
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    nosebleed Well-Known Member

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    I totally understand where you are coming from. They've said in the past that there is a zero tolerance policy for RWT jokes so I too find it quite confusing how this individual wasn't banned.
     
  6. Sen
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    Sen Forum Moderator

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    I know many of you guys read the ban appeals as religiously as I do, and I've personally noticed that they've become much more lenient with RWT-related jokes. I remember a few years ago when people would be permanently banned for making a joke as obvious as the one you mentioned, and for the past few months I've seen more and more people receiving 30-day bans instead (often being reduced from a permanent ban) for such jokes. This example seems to be foregoing bans for RWT-related jokes altogether--a seemingly more faithful adherence to the "believable claim" policy. I wouldn't necessarily point this as an issue of inconsistency, as the Staff as a whole seems to have become gradually (yet consistently) lax about banning for RWT-related jokes.

    I can understand the confusion and the desire for clarification. But unfortunately, such is the nature of discretionary policy. The best we can do as a community is to remain vigilant to ensure that Staff apply such policies fairly. And as a general matter, I personally support this increased leniency.

    I also don't see where this personal dig comes from lol, but I do agree with the overall viewpoint. I would understand if a player felt mistreated for being permanently banned over making an obvious joke, but I really can't understand this hurry to draw a definitive line over what we all clearly acknowledge to be a gray-area rule. Are RWT-related jokes allowed? The answer as of now seems to be "sometimes." If one really feels an itch to make an RWT-related joke, the prevailing wisdom still stands to be "don't." But if someone were to make such a joke, they can at least hope to be spared from the most damning punishment.
     
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  7. sparky95
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    sparky95 Donator

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    Section 3. Game Use & Restrictions
    Any player accessing MapleRoyals is, by playing the game, agreeing that Game Masters (“GMs”) and Administrators (“Admins”) and any other MapleRoyals Staff have ultimate discretion and authority in applying, construing, interpreting, acting upon, or omitting any clause of the following section based on the evidence obtained from any source. Furthermore, MapleRoyals Staff possess the authority and the ability to exercise the right to modify any punishment for a violation of the Game Use & Restrictions. Upon breach of any of the following clauses, you acknowledge that you have the right to one appeal in which you may present any evidence of your innocence you wish, after which any decision made by MapleRoyals Staff is final and binding, and you are no longer entitled to any further appeals.

    Appendices
    Major Infraction

    8. Real World Trading (RWT) - Real World Trading involves the transaction of out-of-game services or currency for in-game benefits. We understand that some players are interested in other activities, such as arts or crafts, and may wish to compensate those who assist them from either side with in-game benefits, however this does place a player in a situation where they may be considered real world trading, at the discretion of staff. We advise against any and all of these sorts of meso-for-art trades. Furthermore, the act of soliciting real world trading does qualify as an infraction of this rule, both in-game and out of game, and therefore requesting any in-game item for real world currencies or vice versa may result in consequences as per this rule at the discretion of staff.

    The T&C does state that such infraction depends on the discretion of Staff. There is a general consensus to tell if the joke was serious or not and it'd be too harsh to permanently ban someone if it was their 1st offense.
     
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  8. Matt
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    Matt Administrator

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    We are fairly strict when it comes to hinting/joking/suggesting of RWT. However we do need to at least attempt to take context into account and evaluate how serious the act seems to be, otherwise we will be banning players all day for frivolous scenarios, and this simply causes a lot of frustration for the player as they are in most cases simply just making a light hearted joke, and could even be completely oblivious to the fact that it could even be classed as RWT. The report you were referring to was just two people having a friendly interaction in a map, and the discussion did not go any further than that. If they continued to talk and exchange details of how to do the trade, it would have likely have been handled differently. Or if somebody did a smega along the lines of 'Giving away a teleport rocks in exchange selfies, whisper me', then it would probably be classed as RWT, as it would seem like a legitimate advertisement for committing the trade.

    I'm not sure how we are expected to explain where we draw the line for what is or what isn't RWT. It's just not really feasible to do so. We can't make an entire list of what would or wouldn't be classed as RWT, because we'd need to explain where the line is drawn for so many different acts, and it would potentially open the door for players to try to find loopholes around whatever is stated. For example; like $1 for a perfect equip - obviously a joke, $5? probably a joke too, $10? $20? $50? What do we do, have rules like "any offers made over $20 for a perfect equip will be classed as RWT", I don't think so. We have to consider each individual situation and the context to decide whether there was malicious intent or not.
     
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  9. Aestel
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    Aestel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to everyone for your input! correct me if i'm wrong, the tldr i got from the post was that staff has discretionary and we put our faith in them. Also, if 1 party is "advertising" then it will be further investigated.

    Another question that I encounter and would like to hear your perspective, in a 1 to 1 conversation, someone offering to sub you on twitch for 3 months for 300m. Will that be considered rwt despite not advertising it?

    5m for instagram details does sound like he is advertising so he got banned. But for the twitch case, does it warrant a ban?
     
  10. Matt
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    Matt Administrator

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    3 months for 300m sounds like a serious offer which they have at least put a bit of thought into, so yes it likely would be considered as RWT.
     
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  11. Aestel
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    Aestel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the clarification. It is appreciated.
     
  12. blablabla
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    blablabla Well-Known Member

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    For those who bring up consistency as an issue.. (and no I'm not referring specifically to the thread-maker either, though he's brought up a good point to assist in clarifying this for everyone) I think a good way to think about this that the staff will adapt based on retrospect as well. I doubt they go mindlessly banning people and immediately leave those cases to be forgotten. Staff are people just like the players and they can't always make the best decisions that everyone can agree with. They understand this, as evident in the fact that they created a Ban Appeal section. Of course from our perspective, it does appear ban appeals generally aren't successful, but it does provide people a chance to narrate their side of the story. The low success rate of appeals can also be attributed to the fact that most people appealing have been caught red-handed and the staff simply upholds the same policies and procedures for everyone.

    On an ending note, despite some fears people may have about being unreasonably banned, the staff still does well in upholding their integrity and maintaining consistency. We may have surrendered a lot of power and put our faith in MR's staff, but that also means they have that much more responsibility if they want to run a proper server (which they already are). I'm sure most of the changes in staff discretion or other practices are heavily influenced by not only their personal experiences, but our feedback as well. All the more reason why a Ban Appeal serves a great purpose - it provides the staff their opportunity to explain how their process work so that the rest of us can also read, reflect, and remember.
     

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