Quest QoL Tokens of Teamwork + HP Quest Revamp

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by PalmTree, Jul 6, 2021.

  1. PalmTree
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    PalmTree Well-Known Member

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    To be blunt, Mapleroyals is dying. The server's biggest flaw is HP washing and there have been countless discussions on that topic. However, it seems that the players' concerns on HP washing will never be resolved.

    As we all know, our main way to gain base HP without washing is through the Search of Elixir quest. Other than that, you would have to spend all your NX (on resets or gambling with gach) and sell leech. Depending on preferences, that may take months or years of dedication, and ultimately result in feeling burnt out and quitting without getting the chance to play that character.

    In the beginning of this year, Update 71 introduced the Token of Teamwork, an untradeable item, to incentivize players to join (and participate in) party quests that have died due to the leeching-washing meta. While the rewards for Tokens of Teamwork are super cute NX items, it does not seem worth getting because (1) it is all untradeable and (2) it takes months to get. Speaking for myself, I have a small stack of unused Tokens of Teamwork because I feel there is no use to PQ and I will never get enough tokens for the best reward until 2027. As of today, party quests are still dead and will continue to be dead.

    Suggestion to gain more base HP:
    1. Tokens of Teamwork should reward base HP.
    For nonmage classes, 1 Token : 5 HP. For mage classes, 1 Token : 5 MP. The amount could be capped at 5,000 HP/MP. This will liven the dead party quests while allowing newer players and recurring players to gain more base HP without washing.
    Basic calculations (Tokens are capped at 3 rounds per day):
    ~Ludibrium Maze Party Quest (1 Token of Teamwork)
    1 PQ * 1 token * 3 daily = 3 tokens per day
    ~Henesys-, Kerning City-, Ellin Forest Party Quests (2 Tokens of Teamwork)
    3 PQ * 2 tokens * 3 daily = 18 tokens per day
    ~Ludibrium-, Orbis-, Romeo & Juliet Party Quests (3 Tokens of Teamwork)
    3 PQ * 3 tokens * 3 daily = 27 tokens per day
    Total: 48 tokens
    48 tokens * 5 HP per token = 240 HP gain per day​

    2. Buff the Search of Elixir quest. The current amount of HP (10 - 20) it gives is not worth doing for the time it takes and certain areas take longer than others due to travel and drop rates. Also, mages should be able to do this quest and receive base mana (idk why this hasn't been implemented yet).
    ~I suggest creating a daily cap for the quest by making it repeatable until you gain 60-70 HP/MP.
    ~Or, buff the amount of HP/MP from 10-20 to 40-50 if the quest and drop rate remain the same.​

    Note: This suggestion will not remove HP Washing. These suggestions will help new and old characters reach their desired HP goal without washing too much. I know there are some old characters that stopped washing back when 12k HP minimum wasn't a thing and are useless in the newer bosses. Thanks for reading!
    ~Approved by GodlyBread
     
  2. Johnny
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    Judging from the comments on this feedback thread made by @Joong back in early May of 2021 it would be safe to assume that many of us - newer and veteran players would like to see new and improved ways to gain HP without washing. With what OP suggested, it would still be quite tedious to do everything daily so it does not really take away or directly replace HP washing but it also does not throttle motivated players progression in gaining HP as much than what we currently have right now (assuming players want to pass the 9500 HP mark). With addition to this, maybe Tonic of Creation/Chaos Elixir could also be a reward or dropped from existing daily bossing expeditions?

    It can't go unnoticed that the new rival server on gtop100 has quickly grown a player base that has surpassed Royals online count during some time(s) of the day. I hope staff is observing the other server and are planning something around this change for the upcoming update because it feels like Royals has been bleeding a lot of players as of lately. If there are no immediate changes that caters to new players concerns, we won't have any because why join Royals when the server next door is much more casual and welcoming.
     
  3. Kenny
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    Kenny Developer

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    Thanks for the feedback! We do have plans to address the hp washing. Meanwhile, it takes some time to develop and balance such a system. Stay tuned for a new update soonTM
     
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  4. TN Laxus
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    TN Laxus Well-Known Member

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    I know it's not the topic of the post, but my personal quitting reason was that the one thing I had to keep progressing was sell leech until I had 30b to buy my perfect weapon, which would take like 250 hours of my life. 250 freacking hours spamming a button while watching netflix. No way I do that.

    Revamp the way people get money.
     
  5. PalmTree
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    PalmTree Well-Known Member

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    Is there a specific timeline as to when the plans of HP washing will be addressed and when that will be implemented? I understand that it takes time to develop, but even a rough estimate would actually be helpful since none of us know how prioritized it is. In my opinion, I think it'd be best to address those plans beforehand and as soon as possible. This will give the community an idea of what changes will be made and also get to hear our opinions/feedback. Otherwise, like the thief avoid nerf, developers will be making unnecessary changes back and forth and their time will be wasted. Also, will my suggestion be considered and how does it compare to what you guys already have in mind? The phrase "soonTM" is pretty outdated, broad, and (not to be rude) annoying. soonTM could mean anything from a few weeks turning into months and potentially years. Again, a rough estimate would be super beneficial to the community to expect this update. Any other GM/Admin/Developer can add onto this as well?
     
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  6. pentanes
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    pentanes Active Member

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    Reduce the boss damage. Increase the default hp slightly.
    In this way, I think we can reduce the burden of hp washing.
    We might also consider creating a party finding system.
    If people can find party without spending 2mil on Smega,I think it will be more active.
     
  7. Aradia Megido
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    Aradia Megido Well-Known Member

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    While we're at it, we can talk about buffing Defense, arguagly the worst useless stat in the game, it could use some buff to reduce the toll on HP washing.
    More specifically, my suggestion here.
    If any of these changes were implemented, I think people would engage more often on Party Quests and incentive players and if defense were made an actually useful stat it could help more out for those players that can't afford the more expensive HP washing in most cases.
     
  8. tercels
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    tercels Active Member

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    Can we stay on topic and not put trash on this thread?
     
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  9. Aradia Megido
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    Aradia Megido Well-Known Member

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    Both suggestions have more or less the same goal.
    But yeah if the OP feels my post was inappropiate he can ask a forum mod to remove my post since I can't delete it.
     
  10. xDarkomantis
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    xDarkomantis Well-Known Member

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    This would be ideal. Please show the plan for how the implemention of alt HP will be in the planning before going about it. Stuff like this could be avoided:
    Don't screw over players for trying to do both alt HP gain+semi-washing/full washing.
     
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  11. Joong
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    Joong Developer

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    This idea is something we discussed internally prior to Update 71, but a combination of implementation details, and wanting to proceed cautiously led us to roll out the exclusive NX equips first. We clearly wish to promote Party Questing as an activity which can unite players of high and low levels, or just to enable people to experience something nostalgic. (However please read the rest of my post for a fuller understanding of my concerns. Feel free to reply as well!)

    Based on your original post, I take it you don't wish to see this system cap out at any particular HP value like was previously discussed with the community; that is, not like Reuel's quests?

    Of course we are well aware of the state of the private server market, and any news surrounding it.
    Royals obviously has some traits that not everyone is happy with, and other, new servers may easily do away with these in radical ways - one of the many luxuries of being new. Regardless of the specifics, they are able to brand themselves as anything they like, without fear of not meeting the expectations of old or current players. If I may speak personally, I see a lot of requests for straight-forward, "easy", but irreversible changes. I'm not one to say that Royals should be this or that, but once you begin to walk down a certain path, there is no going back. During our long lifetime, we've kept relatively close to the roots of GMS, for good and bad. Now that the server is so old, and burdened by various characteristics, it may of course be tempting to try to emulate what others are doing in order to "catch up" or "get with the times and capture new players". Granted, it's a broader topic, and only tangentially related to the proposal of this thread, but changing the course or identity of the server in order to simply be more "casual and welcoming" isn't a light decision. It also begs the question of what exactly you mean by that!

    Don't get me wrong, I don't wish to instill a sense that I or other Staff members don't feel a sense of urgency or concern - we are always concerned with the wellbeing of the server - but I observe that community demands are ever-changing, even from individuals. They come and go, and each person has their own ideas. Take for example bosses dropping potions that increase MaxHP. Technically, an easy addition. A source of limitless character upgrades. It also promotes bossing, which fundamentally sends a certain signal that we as a server deem this form of gameplay to be a primary objective. It helps create a natural way to gain HP for those who partake, but then what? Years down the line, where will it land us? It's not a tried and tested method, and it has no cap. Is it in line with what Royals has strived to be - moderately GMS-like - and will it affect what the server will become in the future? This may seem like excessive scrutiny of your casual remark; but my intent is just to use it as an example. I only speak for myself, and I haven't always been here when decisions to alter gameplay have been made, but my take is that when deviations from what is at least somewhat GMS-like have been made, they have been made with caution. I simultaneously sympathise with concerns voiced across the forums, and wish that there was more mutual understanding of the caution that is taken, in light of the differences between brand-spanking new servers, and the old behemoth that Royals is.
    When the updates were made to Reuel's quests, they were truly made to meet the requests for a way to reach 9500 HP without restrictions. And the implementation was an attempt to expedite the process to provide something, while we worked on more elaborate and polished methods to reach this target HP. We know that they don't satisfy the immediate needs or desires of new players who want to catch up with the rather harsh metagame. Although the original "9500 HP" mark stemmed from a community request, one can argue if that target HP is reasonable, but that really deserves a thread of its own.

    As it stands our ambition is to create a way for players to reach a similar target HP as previously discussed with the community, starting from a low level and via natural gameplay means (as opposed to HP washing). We are hoping to be able to deliver this in one of the future patches (that is, it's among our priorities).

    Of course this concept seems to really divide people, as is evident by the user below who tagged me with some strong opinions attached. Should new methods to gain HP work together with HP washing? If so, how much easier will it be to reach high HP levels, and what implications will this have for the server in the long-term? The concern is that new ways to gain HP can simply be used to top up on traditional HP washing, as a cheaper alternative; is that desired? If we wish to balance this new HP gain so that it's not too easy to gain large amounts of HP when used together with HP washing; will that defeat the purpose of the introduction of new ways to gain HP in the first place? To re-iterate, if we wish to make more HP readily accessible to new players, should we ensure that it doesn't lead to higher-than-intended HP values becoming the norm across the server? That is what we tried to achieve thus far with Reuel's quests, ie what was asked in the Community Feedback Thread.

    As for your request in particular, I can't tell you at this time if this is something we will implement, but all of the concerns I have outlined so far of course apply to your proposal as well. And do keep in mind that those are my concerns and are not indicative of what other Staff members may feel.

     
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  12. xDarkomantis
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    xDarkomantis Well-Known Member

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    So... saying for there to be a shown plan for the community before implementing so we can critique it is a strong opinion.. You must have laughed out loud hard while writing that, didn't you?
     
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  13. PalmTree
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    PalmTree Well-Known Member

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    It's great to hear that you guys considered HP/MP as a reward for Tokens of Teamwork! It'd be nice to see something useful out of these tokens soon as it has collected dust in all of our inventories. Since this new feature has been out for a few months now, with only a selected number of people actually obtaining the most "expensive" reward, and the rest holding a small amount for no particular reason, why hasn't the HP/MP reward been reconsidered? Again, how does this suggestion differ from what you guys plan on releasing in the next update?
    In my post, I mentioned capping it when a certain amount of HP/MP is gained. In my example, once the character obtains 5,000 HP/MP, the tokens are no longer redeemable for HP/MP. Of course, if that amount sounds too high for your liking, it can be reduced. The reason I chose 5,000 instead of [let's say] 1,000: it will keep party quests active for a longer period of time. I think if it was capped at a certain HP limit (like Search of Elixir quest), it might be pretty broken if there's no level limit. And I do not think it is ideal to restrict lower-leveled players from redeeming the reward until they're level 130 [example].
    I think @xDarkomantis was agreeing with what I said in my previous reply:
    Not trying to be rude, but my questions seem to be avoided. So again, will you ever release an approximate timeline for us to know when this will be implemented? Will this suggestion be considered again since it was internally discussed in the past and brought up again by the community?
    You [GMs] seem to be interested in making new ways to gain HP/MP difficult. I would say it's difficult enough aiming for ~13-18k base HP (as that is the optimal HP to not die at the more recent bosses.. maybe even higher) on a ranged character purely through washing. Although melee characters are easier to wash, but nonetheless still expensive, you can't force people to play characters they didn't want to play just because it's "easier." If you do the calculations, it is a few billion mesos and nx for a casual player to obtain, and that process is delayed when the time it takes to make mesos is much slower than buying/self-leeching their characters. This is possibly a reason RWT is such a huge problem in this server, as making billions of mesos to HP wash correctly and gathering decent gear could take a considerable amount of time that no one wants to spend their free time doing. As seen in loads of responses from others, there is a repeating pattern of:
    "new players struggle to make money to play a bossing character without creating a bishop and selling leech"
    "players who quit and come back, only to have to spend all their saved nx on ap resets to sell/use on their character or they forgot to vote within the time they were inactive and have nothing -- basically starting from scratch again"
    What changes can be made about the Search of Elixir quest? I am not sure if any GMs/Admins have done this quest (often enough) to know how frustrating this quest can be. Spending 30+ minutes (depending on how fast you get the item, how strong you are, and travel time) per day only to receive a 10-20 HP increase is unsatisfying, demotivating, and purely not worth doing. Certain quests take longer than others and require a lot of quest items (why?? buff drops pls). To any player who has done this quest often enough, do you find this quest balanced? And to any players who have tried doing this quest repetitively to reach the cap, how long did it take and do you think it was worth it?
     
  14. Becca
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    Becca GM

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    Personally speaking, I have done the elixir of life quests on three characters so far and earned around 600hp total, while dedicating an hour or two each day to completing them. Within an hour (or a little bit more, sometimes an hour and a half) I was averaging around 100-110 hp gained. Keep in mind I would do it sporadically every once in awhile when I had time, but for the past 7 days I’ve been making it a routine to work on the maximum HP goal the unlimited one offers for about an hour or two each day. I was still able to do the repeatable version as opposed to the once per day version. One was a level 13x Shadower, and the other was a 150-ish BM. My DK doesn’t need to do it anymore as I finished my goal during the original quest before the tweaks were made.

    I won’t be answering the majority of your post and I apologize for that, however it has been extensively tested and tweaked from the original release of that quest.
    IE higher drop rates, elixirs are now randomized, lowered the level requirement, and made the quest repeatable for those who have low HP.

    I and a few others have already made suggestions to help negate this HP issue however things take time, and we are currently working on a lot at once at the moment.

    To answer your soonTM question, it really is soonTM because there are a lot that needs to be done and honestly some of these things should’ve been done years ago but here we are. We are trying our best to do what we can and to dedicate some time in every corner of everything that needs to be addressed.
    Things take time unfortunately.
     
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  15. MaiAh
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    MaiAh Well-Known Member

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    HP quest is good as it is but i've said before if only search time gets reduced to like 15-20min counting on FTT and TProcks
    token of teamwork would be nice to offer trade for maxHP pots

    the nx pendant that expire with 250hp from eventPQ was great approach and fun to do
    maybe expand to other items (belt/rings...) and rotate the events so players can work for them to maintain
    or
    reduce the time of the NXitems(pendnat/ring/belt...) and offer nx item (hour glass) to extend their times

    @Joong
    i can go as far and say that almost no one in GMS bera and scania that did PB,HT... went as washed
    wash in GMS as remember it was considered as bug exploit and it could get you ban if you had high and very abnormal amount of HP and nexon fixed this very late
    (yes there was some that washed and got away with it but it was never a issue like in royals for some reason)

    royals powercreep is crazy
    (i know many players include my sair and other in the raids i was in bera that had <10k HP on HB ! and was fine at PB and there is many more players that did same and is all over youtube)
    so yea either complet rework (if is not to late ) or keep as it is with band-aids like this to overcome the wash/leech madness in royals
     
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  16. KittehIshMad
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    KittehIshMad Well-Known Member

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    This suggestion is great, it would really encourage PQ + give a really decent reward (HP increase). And seriously, the current HP quest reward sucks so much, I can't even.
     
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  17. Graces
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    I have actually got like 400 hp from the quest and it's not that hard, the only problem I see with it are all the travels you have to do to complete it, but I'm 17x NL kinda funded, I can see a lvl 120 casual bm/nl taking more than an hour finishing it if we consider them not having fast travel and low tier gears/semi washing. More than an hour for 10 hp? No ty.
    Once again, the problem is that we are not taking into account casual/new players.
     
  18. BwLover
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    BwLover Well-Known Member

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    Some suggestion about Token of Teamwork but not related to hp quest.


    Please add more attractive untradeable nx.
    Why there are similiar rp hat with green color, mustache, farmer waterwork cape, random sneaker, candy watch, and a stem whip(Only 1handed can wear).

    Majority of course won't do this just for some weird nx, most of them just did for crown of the flower or hot spring chair which is rare af and that's it. Some not going try hard for other comestic, and why tf there aren't any top, bottom, overall and weopon nx for all classes. This make Cody a weird wizard not Wizet wizard. If the stem whip is all classes that would be cool lol.

    You may wanna consider to add attack potions or megaphones for token of teamwork. Like Halloween npc.

    Extend the daily limit of pq, make it 5 or smtg and I am not asking for unlimited. Apparently not every pq is easiy to recruit.

    Edit: My apology if the word I wrote wasn't related to HP washing + token of teamwork.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2021
  19. Becca
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    This was why I was one of the Staff members against lowering the requirement down to 120. The vote for this was very close if I remember correctly. I would’ve personally liked to see 135, or kept it at 150 because it was not originally intended for fresh level 120s who are unfunded. However I am completely fine with the majority vote that made it 120! :) I’m glad we had a extensive discussion on it during the tweaking process! :D

    The natural progression from leveling up, plus maxing out the new skills definitely decreased the difficulty when I originally did this when my Shad was 12x. I noticed a huge difference from doing it right at 120, versus finishing ToT and Ellin and then going back to it at level 135-ish. I think if I remember correctly the first time I attempted it at 120 it did take me around 30-40min, but when I came back to it at a slightly higher level, it was easily 15-20min per quest.
     
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  20. Wonderstruck
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    Does these happen to include the library update:D?
     

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