suggestion on anti-hacking

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by happness, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. happness
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    happness Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of hackers in Mapleroyals, gm could offer Random Rewards to those people who report hackers successfully. It is a good method to encourage and motivate all mapleroyalers to fight against hackers.

    (if you have any suggestions, please leave your suggestions here for GM reference.)
     
  2. Shiyui
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    Shiyui Donator

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    My suggestion to staff is to fix their priorities.

    Really, there's no good reason why we STILL don't have autoban after almost FOUR YEARS.

    I get it. There's literally one guy who can make the autoban system. And I get it. Royals wouldn't trust people to outsource dev work. But come on. Does anyone seriously believe that we STILL wouldn't have autoban if it was the top priority? And it isn't. It gets pushed to the wayside by the smallest, most inconsequential things like event map requests and control panel aesthetics lmao. Form takes precedence over substance. The tiniest things cause more and more and more delays until we end up here, three years and nine months without autoban. And counting.

    Incentivizing non-staff players to report hackers misses the point. We shouldn't have to report hackers. GMs shouldn't have to ban hackers in the first place. Before January 1, 2017, most hackers were automatically banned without anyone lifting a finger. And the strongest motivator for people is intrinsic. The non-staff players who have been the most dedicated in going around checking for hackers, botters, what have you are the ones who genuinely care about the game, the players, and the community, not any sort of external reward. But I daresay that every single one of them has or will burn out. You realize that no matter how hard you work to stay ahead of all the cheaters out there and their ill-gotten gains, you're NEVER going to beat the hackers in the channels next door. You will get very disillusioned with the game when you take a step back and realize how long it's been and realize the choices that the people in charge make. You can build yourself on this game for years, put in the hours to make your meso with OP but legitimate methods that require well deserved hard work to set up. And staff will nerf you over and over. And the hackers are still there.

    So you realize that ultimately, the problem is with staff and its backwards priorities. And there's nothing you can do to change that.
     
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  3. Joez
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    Joez Well-Known Member

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  4. Aestel
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    Aestel Well-Known Member

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    I report hackers out of my own free will and I do not expect any rewards. However, sometimes it is really demotivating and demoralising when scenarios like this occur.

    Disclaimer: This post is not to hate on anyone mentioned. Instead, it is to hopefully remind staff on how urgent auto-ban is required.

    On the 22nd of July 2020
    Made reports on multiple hackers and tagged Becca since she was online. Her reply was this

    upload_2020-9-6_15-51-17.png


    and then proceeded to post this on another thread

    upload_2020-9-6_15-51-48.png

    ok, I get it, tagging you might cross a thin-line/your boundaries and I apologise about it. Also, I agree that we all have commitments outside of the game. However, I quote from you "you are not screaming into a void, we can hear you."

    On the 23rd and 24th of July 2020, I went back to the area(s) to check if the hackers were still there, and they were.

    On the 25th of July 2020, Johnny replied and finally banned the hackers

    upload_2020-9-6_15-55-31.png

    72 hours of ungoverned hacking. Some of the passionate players that actively play this game left because of this.


    TLDR; my point is
    I understand that staff have commitments outside of the game and can't respond to the mass number of reports coming in daily. Since that is the case, shouldn't the auto-ban system be a top priority?
    Imagine how much more free time staff will get. Also, with all these hackers running around, the economy for farming is so bad, people in the game are just relying on hackers to mass farm items/scrolls because they sell them for a bargain in the free market. And simultaneously, legit players just flock to leech story because no farmer wants to sell their hard farmed items for so cheap because the hackers will just undercut the farmers easily. Legit players that farm will slowly move towards leech story just because they can't obtain a competitive price in the market.
     
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  5. Johnny
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    Johnny Donator

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    Since my name was mentioned above, I feel somewhat obligated to respond to this thread. I get it... everyone is frustrated, so are the other members of staff, and to no surprise that includes me. As an active player that also plays this game, I agree with what most of you have said and it is pretty demotivating at times to play this game with the constant battle of nerfs, while having no autoban in place.


    I'm not sure about others but I try to set aside almost a minimum of one hour per day just going through report abuse, banning hackers, occasionally hosting events and whatever else the scope of a gm intern allows me to do along side spending time on my legit character (without this I don't think I would even be motivated to even be on staff). Like others said above, we all have commitments outside of the game but I try to make some time everyday. I also just want to thank all the players that use report abuse to help keep MapleRoyals as clean as possible, without you guys there would be so many more hackers.

    https://mapleroyals.com/forum/threads/staff-changes.150359/
    I joined staff on January 31st 2020, its been about ~219 days and I answered about ~1800 reports
    [​IMG]
    Thats about ~8 reports answered a day from me alone on average (majority of the reports are for hackers and many have more than one)

    And to no surprise we are quite understaffed at the moment, so if you are a passionate community member that wants to assist the community you should apply here:
    https://mapleroyals.com/forum/forums/staff-applications.66/
     
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  6. Becca
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    Becca GM

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    Since my name was also mentioned here I do think there should be a fine line between tagging us and expecting us to be in-game 24/7.
    We are well aware of the hackers, and other game ruining things, and we are working on some things that need time.

    Edit:
    We have only one person who is capable of adding anything like autoban in, and before you can say "just add another person to help out" it really isn't that easy. We've all voiced our opinions in Staff chat, I can't say anymore on that subject.

    I have had multiple people, and "friends" ask constantly about GM things, and while I don't mind helping, one thing I do not like is being forced on the spot to do something. I think anyone else can agree that if someone was bugging them to check a report when they were trying to sleep, they would also be rightfully annoyed as well. I believe for me that time zone it was around 4-5 am when you were tagging me to deal with the reports. When I can't sleep and I lie there in bed like most of us do, I will check the forum for a brief second to see if there's a ban appeal I can easily answer, or something I can add to the Character Issues list. I am already in bed by that time, and I'm sorry but I will not be getting up just to turn on my computer, I was up previously for 20 hours that specific day I believe, handling reports and forum matters.
    That Off my Chest post was honestly everything else building up. It wasn't just you.

    We are understaffed as Johnny mentioned, and I understand your dedication and we really do appreciate you taking the time to write up reports, but please do not tag us in them. We know they are there and we will get to them when we are available. It was 4-5 am when you were tagging me in those posts, I couldn't do anything and I was trying to sleep. Please make a GM application and feel free to take initiative! :)

    You are not screaming into a void-- we do hear you. Just not when we're trying to sleep. You need to understand that we all have different time zones and sometimes there are dead periods where Staff members are asleep/working/school. It will get answered when someone can view it.

    I'd also like to mention that if getting sleep is demotivating and demoralizing to you then I don't know what else to say. We are not robots, we need sleep, and we have separate time zones. We also have lives outside of the game, and unfortunately cannot be in-game 24/7 as much as we'd like to be. :oops: Burnouts are real, and when you're dealing with a never-ending wave it really is frustrating for not just the players, but the Staff as well.

    Edit again:
    Sorry, I keep going over this and if you could view how may times I've edited this you'd think I was crazy :oops: I should be done after this I promise!

    I'd also like to take the time to explain a little bit about what is going on in my personal life. I will not be diving into the extreme details and the juicy bits and gossip, but one notable thing I'd like to mention is that my Grandmother, a lady who has essentially helped raise me is suffering from Alzheimer's.

    She has been since 2012, and she's stopped speaking to us since 2016. She has not been doing well and we (my family) have been travelling away (3+ hours) to visit her, and other family members. We don't do day trips so there are long periods where I am away from my pc but I am online in the forum.

    We've been told either this year or next year could be her last. Due to COVID we were unable to visit her, they've just lowered some visiting restrictions.

    I would also like to spend time with my family, as I do not see myself living here for long term.

    My mother (her daughter) is stressing out because we've had this disease run in our family. Great-Grandmother suffered from it, now Grandmother is, and my Aunts and mom are getting up there in age so it's a really stressful time for everyone involved. My Grandmother told us she noticed things were different in her late 40s back when she was still in her right of mind, and that's around the age my mom and her sisters are so tensions are really high at the moment.

    I have to deal with the reality of ending up like this before I am even 50, and I am only 22.

    It is really stressful right now outside of the game, and I wish I could be online more, but real life comes first.

    I am mentioning this because hopefully you can get a glimpse into our lives too, and see that we can't all be in the game 24/7.

    I appreciate anyone who has taken the time to read this, as I don't like being open about personal things like this. Thank you.

    I hope you can understand that myself and other Staff members really are doing our best, as well as those who continue to submit reports! We really do thank you from the bottom of our hearts for being supportive and still loving the game as much as we do.

    TLDR
    Alzheimer's is a bitch.
     
  7. Aestel
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    Aestel Well-Known Member

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    Disclaimer
    My apologies if this post seems targetted towards you two. Please be assured that this is not my intention. On the contrary, I greatly appreciate 95% of the times where staff replies promptly to my reports. What I've read from the 2 replies are basically insufficient manpower in the team itself and insufficient manpower for the auto-ban system. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to quote the above post, three years and nine months without autoban. And counting.

    I also want to clarify that this isn't a petty argument about the reports, but rather auto-ban will save the staff so much more time.

    My reply to Becca
    From what I've read in the "Get it off your chest" post, I've somewhat guessed that it wasn't directed at me. Also, I do not think that sleeping is demotivating and demoralizing to me. However, I think that 3-4 days is a fairly long time. Thank you for sharing your personal life, I now have more understanding and can look at it from a different perspective. I wish you the best in achieving your goals in life.

    Back to the main purpose of this thread
    Players play the game to enjoy the nostalgic content. Players shouldn't be doing things that a GM/auto-ban system should be doing in the first place, so I don't agree with players being rewarded.
     
  8. MaiAh
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    MaiAh Well-Known Member

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    i think royals just need more staff(especially Admins and GM's) to help fight ToS breakers as much as possible
    community is pretty much separated apart , some think RWT to friends or inside guild is fine, some think boting helps the market, joining in some guilds doesn't make you ToS breaker anymore...
    we need to get together and fight fairly without double standards
    i've seen a lot of maplestory servers ( some of them are more then 15years around) and all of them constantly race-fight with ToS breakers without much of success

    autoban system almost never showed some positive outcome outside of KMS and thats because KMS got actual life punishments for ToS breakers. (in CMS,GMS i saw ToS breakers go as far as useing the autoban system as guidance to make their illicit activities more legal and that just turned to huge false ban waves )

    i also agree with some kind of reward-motivation for GM's and Royalers who make detailed reports, because is quite discouraging to go against all the ToS breakers voluntary. (kudos for those who dedicate their time not to play the game and just fight-deal with ToS breakers on daily basis voluntary big thank you )

    is not just maplestory with such ToS breakers, all the games around dealing with same issue
    noone has implemented "autoban system" without constantly GM/player report fights
    what surprised me the most recently was when i got the FALL GUYS for 19,99€
    to see the amount of cheaters willing to pay € aswell just to cheat and ruin the game for all other , despite getting nothing for that other then ruined game run to random players ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  9. Dasha
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    Dasha GM

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    Well since this thread is asking to reward people who report hackers actively here's my two cents.

    I have been taking the time out my day to report bulks of hackers, sometimes cleaning whole regions at a time, And let me tell you. I haven't been doing that with some anticipation of a reward or a pat on the back.
    My reasoning might be simple but it is true, I love the community and I believe that my actions better the server as a whole, The economy, The slightly overworked Gm's, and our newer coming players.

    Should we reward players going out of their way to report hackers? Probably not. Setting rewards for reporting players is encouraging them to go report happy and step away from their gaming experience to actively hunt hackers. Time-consuming, and can lead to burnout: Resulting in less legit players playing and enjoying the game as it should be. Not to mention the frustration that shows its cracks on the community who grows tired from the lack of transparency when it comes to game development.

    If you really looking to reward those who go out of their way and put their time and energy on the line, Please carry on with the current energy the GM interns have brought to the team. We want more transparency and to know that our reports are not just bandaging a huge issue, Rather than us being involved as the foundation that keeps the server intact while the development of the auto-ban continues. The Gm development blog is a step in the right direction!

    After reading some of the comments here I would like to thank the Gms who honestly didn't sign up for the number of responsibilities the players hold you accountable for. Please stay as passionate as the day you submitted your gm application :love: ❤️
     
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  10. Muff
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    Muff GM

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    I am offering one free muffin (with choice of style) to everyone who successfully reports a hacker. Pick up only, though.

    To be serious, the autoban IS highest priority and is getting the most work done. But most anyone experienced in software development knows that you can't hyper focus on one project and not burn out. Really, that goes for many tasks in life, both day to day personal things, and at work. I've been a victim of that myself. So every now and then a refresher is needed and something else gets worked on. Aside from just working on many different things, we still do want to release new ways the community can interact, and new things to do in game. On top of improving things through QoL changes, fixing bugs, helping players with odd issues, and all the other externally visible duties it is a lot of work but rest assured we are busting our butts to try and bring you all the greatest experience possible, in game and out!
     
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  11. Aestel
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    Aestel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for letting us know. As 3 years and 9months is a fairly long time, will it be possible for any staff member to share with us the progress of it? (Without revealing too much and soonTM)
     
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  12. Kai
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    Kai Donator

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    Unfortunately there's nothing much we can share here without leaking stuffs to the hackers who are lurking around so that their behavior change too drastically and make our life harder.

    But we have already started trialing out our autoban features, just that the "autoban" part isn't in because we are still adjusting the logic. So far, almost everything is near 100% accuracy (sometimes with some false alerts, so we have to continue monitoring and making adjustments).
     
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  13. Aestel
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    Aestel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you so much.
     
  14. Rhynhardt
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    Rhynhardt Well-Known Member

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    Okay I have to comment on this asinine expectation that a report/gm tag should be an immediate response. In this case there is a complaint about a 72 hour response time. This complaint would be 100% valid if the context of what was done those 3 days was presented. Make your report and move on, it isn't your job to be the police and just comes across as pandering beyond that point.
     
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  15. Aestel
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    Aestel Well-Known Member

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    I stated above that the point wasn't about the 3 days report. I have reports that go unanswered for 9months, but that is beside the point. If you read the posts above, you will realise it is more about the absence of the auto-ban system than a petty complain. The pictures were also used for an example.

    edit
    also, it ultimately comes down to how passionate you are for this game. If someone is destroying something that you love despite making a police report, won't you feel upset about the system?
     
  16. Raymondx
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  17. FireHeart
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    FireHeart Donator

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    I miss the abundance of Shiyui posts like this.

    I agree it’s really unfair for legitimate but OP methods to get nerfed. Some people played this game for years building up to do some things like summon farm or Quad Ulu 1 (myself included) only for it to get nerfed. Why do anything cool in this game anymore if it could just be deemed op by out of touch staff members and nerfed?
     
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  18. Aestel
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    Aestel Well-Known Member

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    upload_2020-9-19_16-11-17.png
    I think your screenshot missed out on the first thing I posted. Also, I also needed some context to show that the staff are busy with other priorities, and hence why we need the autoban system.

    upload_2020-9-19_16-16-33.png

    In the next post, I even apologised if they thought that it was a petty complaint. However, if you feel that this is a petty complaint, we can agree to disagree.
     
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  19. Raymondx
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    Raymondx Donator

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    Yeah but you still spent like 30+ minutes screenshotting, formatting a post quoting specific gm's, and complaining about their 3 day response time, then spent 2 minutes actually typing about autoban. if you actually wanted to talk about auto ban, you would've spent the majority of your post talking about that and not mention in your reply how you had reports unseen for 9 months. You could've deleted the first 80% of your post and replaced it with "autoban would be faster than the insanely slow 3 day response time" and you'd not only save yourself time but also not force two gms to waste their time defending themselves, time that they could have spent fulfilling the Amazon Now levels of speed and reliability you're expecting from a small group of unpaid volunteers.

    The game you're passionate about doesn't exist without them, and they're doing their best.
     
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  20. Dave Deviluke
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    Dave Deviluke Forum Moderator

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    Just gonna put it here 1st

    If the Staff and released a bugged auto-ban that have a high % of false bans such as 10%, I can accept being falsely banned as I am not that active in Royals

    But not all players can accept such a result and may even rage at the GMs for the false bans

    So please understand that the Staff do want the auto-ban, in a way that false bans are to a minimal
     
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