In Discussion Some relevant Neo Tokyo bossing feedback

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Donn1e, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. Donn1e
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    Hello,

    First of all i'd like to mention that the staff took some steps in the right direction regarding Neo Tokyo in the past few months, and some of them were not even mentioned in patch notes:
    - increasing dispel cooldown for Dunas V2
    - disabling sacks and mounts in Auf expedition
    - adding more drops to Auf
    - changing miracle scrolls to 10%

    and more.

    I don't know what was mentioned before, but here's a small list of changes that in my opinion will make Neo Tokyo much better.

    Auf Haven:
    Auf is in a good spot atm when we look at drops, it gives consistant meso (not much meso, but almost guaranteed) and dry runs are a rarity.
    Auf used to be a really fun and engaging boss fight, that encouraged unique party compositions (bucc/pally/shad) and required good usage of Holy Shield, Hero's Will and more skills - also making active bishops almost a must, which is a dying thing in Royals unfortunately.
    But it all ended with the discovery of THIS PLATFORM:

    [​IMG]

    (excuse me for using my own screenshot, not a flex).

    For those of you who don't know, all melee jobs can attack from the edges of this platform and it enables you to:
    - not get stunned
    - not get touched
    - fly above Auf when u get seduced
    - snatch auf from the other side of the map without any risk
    - attack clones while keeping Auf pinned

    Leading to Auf being a braindead boss with 1 bucc pinning from that platform while 1-2 NLs just float and attack.
    Please remove that platform.

    Core Blaze: (2nd stage of Auf expedition)
    After fixing sacks (you used to able to sack in this map causing the boss not to summon the annoying mobs) theres only 1 issue left for me, which honestly is a bug but it affects this stage a lot.
    People still manage to make this stage pretty much afk by getting rid of the flying mobs while staying on the top platform and ignoring the mobs at the bottom.
    How to make flying Mavericks disappear in 2 simple steps:
    1. stun
    2. use doom
    and they just go *poof* and disappear mid-air.

    This is extremly exploitable since buccs (a must in Auf Haven) have a stun skill in Backspin Blow and it gets even easier if you have a pally or shad.
    Please fix...

    Nibergen:
    This boss is terrible atm and people only ever do it to move on with Neo Tokyo prequests.
    The main reason for that would be the excessive weapon cancels, I mean it's absolutely ridiculous how you have to just stand there watching this boss cancel more often than not, and honestly nobody is ever going to do those prequests on crash mules.

    I also wanna talk about the drops:
    At the moment Nibergen has 2 good drops - Nano plant (omega) and shield ma 60% and they DO NOT drop often at all.
    Why would anyone bother running this boss just for these?

    My suggestion would be to reduce the weapon cancels and add more desirable drops (for example - belt scrolls, ring scrolls and some skillbooks perhaps).

    Vergamot:
    This boss is actually in a decent state on paper and while they could use some tweking - the drops are ok (shield ma 60%, Nano plant (omega), face avoid 60%) and the boss fight is easy enough to make it the ideal place to farm nano plants.
    HOWEVER, the drop rate is laughable - you can basically solo this boss for a month and get like 1 nano plant, making it a huge waste of time.
    Nano plant (omega) is not nearly as valuable as Element Pierce from Dunas V1 for example and is not worth running this boss daily for with the current drop rate.

    So my suggestion would be:
    1. Increase nano plant drop chance, while adding some more drops (rare but not too expensive skillbooks like assassinate 30, guardian/achilles 30 etc. preferred)
    2. Remove seduce or tweak the boss fight in a way that seduce will be an actual threat, because that is never going to kill you the way it is, it's just a time waster.

    Dunas V2:
    To me this is a big waste of potential, this boss could be pretty good.
    While the first part of the fight is kinda pointless and just consists of attacking an annoying drone from a safe spot, the second part is the one I have issues with;
    It can just be described as the boss running around, dispelling everyone and dealing high touch damage, while not being able to be knocked or pinned, which is really annoying.
    So the fixes I suggest are pretty simple:

    1) make pinning possible, with damage to KB similar to Auf (70k - 75k), encourgaing using strong attack pots or running with melee classes who can pin.
    2) adjust drops - while it does drop Rush 30 (rarely) ,CSS 1% and 5k NX (pretty often in my experience?), it lacks mid-tier drops like the other neo tokyo bosses and it's basically an all or nothing kind of boss, which sucks considering the amount of effort it takes.

    Why I did not mention Dunas V1 and Nameless Monster:
    These are ok and perfectly farmable, and there are no major issues about them.

    I would really love to see those changes implemented in the game making Neo Tokyo better and more fun for all of us.
    I'm sure you guys have more suggestions, feel free to discuss!
     
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  2. Bator
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    Bator Well-Known Member

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    -.-'Oh my god.But it is ok..

    I think i have left game 3 months..

    Fix it will fair and better for players.
     
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  3. Derrxck
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    Derrxck Donator

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    But what about us drks who need to zerk ~f5
     
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  4. Donn1e
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    Donn1e Donator

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    you can zerk perfectly fine at auf ~f17
    ask mr. pro @Minty
     
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  5. Relmy
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    As long as u have a bucc, zerk just need some atention and 3 types of pots..
     
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  6. CreamGoddess
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    my opinion is remove Element Pierce from auf and add Element Pierce for Dunas V2, also add WS for auf with same rate as zak to drop cs
     
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  7. Al3x
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    Al3x Well-Known Member

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    true challenge was the pre nerf of Auf aka when it first came out ~f12

    make it unpinnable and revert damage thonk ~f18
     
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  8. sparky95
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    Confirmation was given that client restriction doesn't allow modification of archers, bucc and shadowers to attack in flying motion. Is it possible to edit the map file and make it aqueous?
     
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  9. Jooon
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    The platform imo is okay, its quite loved and the requirement to stand at the edge is kinda, meh.
    Its not hard, but its makes a interesting character control mechanic requirement.

    Whats broken is the skill [barrage] LOL.
    Barrage’s skill range is able to easily hit auf from the edges of those platform.

    Using a Bucc Mule & spamming only barrage with bunch of misses is still able to pin auf at the left side.
    Pretty sure it ignores the 75k dmg KB requirement.

    ——
    Please revert auf touch damage to 23.5k. I miss the days where auf’s slash skill + zombify combo which is actually scary [:(]
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
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  10. Haplopelma
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    Haplopelma Well-Known Member

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    As joon said, barrage is hella broken, why is this skill thats missing keeping auf pinned. Why can buccs snatch auf but all the other classes cannot use their skills (rush, bow push), etc.

    The fact that ranged classes cannot attack in the auf expedition is quite annoying as well (make it like aqua road?).

    Add more desirable drops to bosses that people do not do often (Nibergen and Dunas V2). Perhaps we can incorporate the CSS 2% and 3% scrolls to these bosses. Another thing I noticed from doing many of these bosses is the really low drop rate of 5k nx. For the amount of effort, I think it should be slightly higher.

    Another aspect that could make the fights more engaging is making the mobs way stronger. Make it so the boss has overall less hp (core blaze or nibergen for example) but summon flying mobs that do similar damage to boss with like 3-10 million hp. Make the creeps a challenge to deal with because they are problematic. I like the concept of mini aufs. They cause so much chaos but if the team works together, they can get rid of the creep quickly. Perhaps make the flying mavericks way stronger to make the fight and teamwork more engaging and make muling harder.

    Reduce the auf scrolls (not miracle) destroy chance from 50% to like 25%. At the moment, they are completely useless with a 50% destroy rate.

    Make auf's hitbox bigger so that platform cannot be abused

    Will update if I get more ideas.
     
  11. Joez
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    Wouldn’t recommend any changes until the staff roster includes players with actual Auf experience on the server. Furthermore, they will need to be involved in testing these suggestions, especially when a lot of them are related to gameplay mechanics
     
  12. Memester
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    I miss half of my pally's blast shots on that platform so I must be doing something wrong...-.-'
     
  13. Donn1e
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    I Auf on my pally and you are definitely doing something wrong,
    keep in mind you have to attack from the very edges of this platform.
    But if that really doesnt work for you I guess u can just float at the same height and attack, cause pally can just blast in the air...
     
  14. Relmy
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    ure probably a 2h sword user meanwhile memester is a 1h sw or bw user...thats where action range takes place..also i have to try crusher from that platform..but i doubt i can reach 100% hits from there since crusher has a really low down action range...
     
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  15. Vector Ho
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    Lol no, please. My HP is low :'(
     
  16. xRoger
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    I am just asking out of curiousity; can ALL melee class really hit from that platform? If i remember correctly my hero can't hit from that platform F4
     
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  17. Fli
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    Auf Haven :


    1. Barrage is broken, you attack once but KB her times:confused: , I don't even know if the last line of it needs to be 75k+, she just get pinned.
    2. "Disable" rush is not a good idea, just make it doesn't work like some other bosses, also, why snatch still work while this boss not intend to be moved easily?
    3. If we encourage this boss really high difficulty like feedbacks said above, players manage to form a pro party then defeat her deserve more valuable rewards, never think about what's fair but better than HT at least.
    4. The current case we using that platform is like below:
    Bucc: Life is so easy.
    Pally/Shadower: Attack only there will miss a lot, cannot pin very well but does something.
    DK: Just an HB mule, As @Relmy said crusher does not reach downward, this means you forced to attack in front of her(and a bucc helps) .
    Hero: I'm useless.
    If barrage/non-stun platform nerfed, It becomes another BGA run people tent to bring holy shield mules, trust me please you can't really find any multi-party boss run in MuleRoyals(Back to the day shield cannot protect you from being stunned, BGA used to be BM/Warrior/NL party to kill).

    We do need some balance but not just increasing difficulty directly, unchanged version or anything with too high difficulty will not encourage active supports, but encourage more crazy mules swapping, a boss with constantly stunning is never a good idea.


    Like make her main skill stuns you with CD or not 100% success rate would be a good option IMO, in this case an active bishop casting holy shield is still very helpful, and you won't bring a bishop mule because the save attacking place disappeared, casting any buff on mules gives you danger.
    Realistic balance Royals needs is to make it hard but still doable in single-party run(I personally love 30men's run too but not expect it happens always, we have this only when it targeted to a meme run).



    Core Blaze:
    Doom trick is fair IMO, and I don't think it can be easily fixed for developers' view, like they can't fix the issue you are not able to attack when flying, it's probably a build in mechanism.
    When it spawns imperial guards you have to actively move then you can hardly control your doom target to stunned mavericks, doom automatically targets to snails which make it unable to doom more than 6 mobs if you just simply spamming. While they are stack together and imperial guards are almost not killable(it has 9.3M HP), attackers tent to just kill mavericks with risk when they don't have an active bishop in party, mavericks are also not easily to 1hit due to its relatively high HP/some debuff, it will fly to your back during your attack rigid, this risk fair enough to kill it ASAP but to use a bishop mule doing this trick.

    BTW, fix the DC/visual bugs in this map is more important~f8.



     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
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  18. Tect
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    ez fix: make them cant be doomed >:D
     
  19. MaiAh
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    neo tokyo is good contnet but needs some teamplay and rewards improve (as a whole not just auf in the main focus )
    also issue fix or some kind of bandages ( like for example not being able to attack while in swim/fly motion,late or early DR animations...)

    geting "rid of mobs" by active bishop with doom is fairly good support mechanic
    is bad and and kinda "exploitable" when mule bishop is doing it without compropmiseing much the DPS or something like that

    doom works like crazy on the rope, you don't need to move and it transforms them all quickly despite being 6 at the time ( turns them to snail almost as they come and sends them down)
    you have seen my snail army '-' (eats alot magic rocks tho but is not big deal )
     
  20. Fli
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    Some cases when mavericks flying:
    1. Attackers just kill them ASAP(smaller risk, fast).
    2. Attackers stun them, then the one bringing bishop mule change to mule window and do instant kill trick(no risk, slowest).
    3. The one with bishop mule put his/her mule on the rope and try fast dooming(but not kill) every 8 seconds(bigger risk, slow).
    4. Having a bishop member knows how to doom with either case 2. or 3. does(no risk, no damage loss).

    A Bishop mule(usually mule target/unwashed) on rope is not a good choice, aside your dispel usually can't reach the boss, if you can't alt+tab/doom fast you will be easily hit down toward boss then touch(mavericks' attack faster than you).

    Others having easy life only when party with a supportive member, I personally think it fair enough. But if the instant kill trick really get banned that's not a big deal for me either, my point is fixing that is not really necessary.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020

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