Revert Item Drop rates back to Old Source

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by sparky95, Apr 2, 2018.

  1. LordHop
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    What happened to the new drop table? I still get tons of skill books from skeles.
     
  2. SirRetro
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    This kinda hits the nail.
     
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  3. sparky95
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    Reverting the drop rate will result in less income overall but it will also deflate the market at the same time. Everyone will earn less but everything will be cheaper as well, canceling out the gap. Only people that may possibly benefit from this change are those who stacked lots of bil coins (definitely not me, I have 0) but it's a necessary change for the sake of the server. I don't see how this relates to newbies who are unable to enjoy end game content?
     
  4. Derrxck
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    F3 even if you have no bil coins, you're already passed end game potential three times.
     
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  5. NTR
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    Interesting but i'm not sure how quick and beneficial such price changes will be vs the outrage of income nerfs. Maybe certain maps can be nerfed for starters, infamously Ulu1. I definitely agree more alternative farming options for non-mages should be considered but sounds really hard to actualize as long as we keep having this mage=farmers other class=bosser mindset which is unfortunately but probably accurate. Unlimited APQ could be a good start, it's not like it's the best farming method available out there.

    I'm more curious about the drop tables that they have been "planning in the background". Was the whole thing just abandoned? It is going to be almost a year now since that reply. Would be awesome to have some transparency as to what happened.
     
  6. sparky95
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    I grinded in new source and picked up (extra) equips to NPC and bought overpriced end game equips. If the drop rates are reverted, newbies will pick up (less) equips to NPC and buy end game equips with deflated price.

    So... what's the issue here? All those "end game potential" I have will deflate in value when drop rates are reverted. How am I benefitting from this change?
     
  7. SirRetro
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    IMO the only logical thing which will happen is :
    Mesos gain will be nerfed by alot.
    Mesos are more worth, means that RWT even gains more out of it.
    People who got already nice equip like you and any other people, will make like 2x the mesos out of their equip.
    Gap will increase by alot by these changes, because no one else can make mesos anymore except leeching and bossing.
    Rather take it slow and just do 10% instead...
    Remember there is already the very high hp washing gap, which makes it almost unplayable for semi casualplayer here...

    Event Scrolls event will come soon too probably, WS and CS will drop by alot because people need mesos.
     
  8. sparky95
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    I never sold a single minute of leech to this day. I can count the number of HT runs I ran in royals (as in little). I mainly grinded and NPCed equips to get to where I am now, both in old source and in new source.

    The market follows demand and supply rule. If everyone makes less income, items with high price tags won't sell and sellers will competitively lower the price to deplete their stock.

    What makes you think I'll make 2x mesos out of my current equip? The same way their values increased with inflation, it'll go down again when the market (especially ws/cs) goes through depression.

    When the drop rates got unintentionally buffed in new source, I wished ws/cs/APR price to stay the same as the old source so I can earn 2x income but afford them at the same price. Guess what? CS/WS inflated from 300m to 400m+ on the same day gachapon got fixed. AP reset price jumped immediately as well.

    Just because the drop rate gets reverted to a lower rate, it doesn't mean you will suddenly make 0 income. Everything is relative. You are not the only one who will earn less income. Even the veterans and older players will make less income from grinding and the ratio of the gap will stay the same between new vs older players.
     
  9. Evan
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    Just going to throw out there that it's "impossible" to just revert to the old drop rates. It's in the same boat as why spawns were different when new source launched and it took a lot of tinkering to get it right. I don't know why, but considering how spaghetti the old code was, I imagine kevin did his best to make it the same but you can only do so much with a mess.

    Anyways- certainly something that could be worked on I assume- but it would take a while since we also can't compare (easily) to old source. fun fact, @Joong is pretty passionate about the spawns/drops and I think he works with Andreas on this sort of stuff while Kevin and Matt are doing the boring but necessary stuff behind the scenes.
     
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  10. Derrxck
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    The problem is that it's far too late to revert anything because the funded players will always benefit either way. So what if the newer players are getting funds at a rapid rate, everyone is honestly.
     
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  11. sparky95
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    Totally understandable since we have only 1 developer and limited manpower, but shouldn't the drop rates advertised on the home page adjusted to reflect the equip drop rate? It is clearly not anything near 2x.

    And you need to explain how funded players, like myself without bil coin stacks, will benefit from this because I can't see it happening in any way.
     
  12. Matt
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    Drop rates have been a mess since the beginning as explained in my previous post. But you're right, the advertised rates you see are not exactly accurate. Realistically it's more along the lines of: 15x equip, 3x consume, 5x Scroll, 2x Etc if you compare to official drop table rates. However, it's common for servers to use the multiplier based on a drop table of an OdinMS source, so most other servers will have similar problems with rates. I'm not exactly sure how good it would look if we decided to advertise these values.

    With that said we are well aware that the equip drop rate seems excessive in a lot of cases though, and we are still working on solutions.
     
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  13. Derrxck
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    No bil coin isnt an excuse. I can assure you that if you sold all your gear you'd have plenty.
     
  14. sparky95
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    For your logic to work, I have to sell my gear just before the drop rate gets fixed. There's no way to find out exactly when that will take place. If I sell now, my characters can't do anything without gear. If I sell after the change, their value would have deflated already so I wouldn't be making any profit from the sale.
     
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  15. Fr0zen
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    hypothetically if the reversion happens
    short term effects would not be that significant as the input of mesos and items into the economy will be slowed, but those that remains is already there
    this only leads to the inflation rates slowing down

    however, prices will start to increase as the mesos held by players still remain, but item drops are rarer (supply drops, demand remains same)
    this would stabilize at a later point in time where everyone's purchasing power is matched (i may spend more to buy, but now i can sell at higher prices)
    and the mesos sinking such as chair gacha and taxes help deflate the economy by removing mesos

    this may seem fine and all, but the new players will suffer in the short term

    scrolled endgame items will change according to their base item source
    gacha items will be of the same value per player as they are equally accessible, so CS,WS, Ski, ST, DPS, etc. will be stable
    farm based items - RC, most topwear bottomwear and overalls will increase due to the rarity of the dropped base material
    (scrolls are more or less gacha based, so not much change, they will follow the market inflation/deflation, but will lower in value in the long run due to lower usage)

    new players cannot farm as effectively, as the dropped equipment is rarer, they cannot get mesos as easily - from NPCs, and they cannot farm as hard as they cannot get the equipment which are at prices they cannot afford, leading to slowdowns of new players in terms of levels and mesos right after the reversion

    the ones who will gain most of the situation, are those with lots of raw mesos, because their purchasing power will be increased in a deflated market

    only in the very long term, will we be able to see the market deflated, but that would mean that item sinks like tele rocks, chair gacha, etc. will become very costly to new players in the future


    what i would suggest instead, if there are any plans for a reversion, is to progessively decrease drop rates, eg. every 4-6 months the drop rates drop by 5-10% to control any sudden shocks to the market, and also to let market forces stabilize to minimize inequality.
    if its done progessively slow enough (maybe at 1% every month?) , the deflation can get ninja'd without many noticing, and those who speculate will move more mesos - which makes the tax system sink more mesos
     
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  16. FuminoAya
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    Minister for vault matters when?
     
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  17. SirRetro
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    thank you for not beeing autistic like me :D
    great reply
     
  18. LichWiz
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    Instead of lowering the item droprates, wouldn't it be better to lower the item sell price? This way the inflation would stop, without affecting the item droprates.
     
  19. Fr0zen
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    that will indeed lower the rate of inflation
    but it locks the wealth in the currently rich players, and makes it hard for new players to grow
     
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  20. TheBlackMage
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    Out of curiosity, what about some boss etc drop items such as Bigfoot Toe, Miniature Pianus, Heroic Pentagon & Star etc... it certainty felt like 0.2 - 0.25x drop rate when compared to GMS.
     

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