Content Make the LHC grind limitless

Discussion in 'Accepted' started by Metronome, Jul 21, 2021.

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Would you like to remove timer from LHC?

  1. No, keep it 1hr limit per day

    81 vote(s)
    30.7%
  2. Yes, so finding a party isn't much of a pain

    133 vote(s)
    50.4%
  3. No, but adding additional time on timer would be a good idea

    50 vote(s)
    18.9%
  1. Gert
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    Gert GM

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    I guess if we were to remove the timer and add the 1-hour coupon idea Kenny had (which I really like) the only incentive to grind there after the coupon expires is that it's the best grinding spot we have (even though bossing would yield more XP). Do you guys think people would still choose to spend their time there over bossing for more than an hour a day? Would people still grind at LHC even after this coupon expires and the XP becomes worse?
     
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  2. Jooon
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    Reduce the exp & drop rates by 60%.
    X2.5 EXP X2.5 drop during the 2 most active hours of mapleroyals.

    everyone will be screaming for party around that time.

    Throw in a super tanky Ani around those hours in a random map with 1hitting mechanics and insane touch dmg. World boss that drops a gacha box that includes goodies such as cs/ws/chairs to the party who dealt most dmg.
    Boss spawns 2 times a day.
    ~mapowner will be disabled on that particular map.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
  3. Metronome
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    Metronome Well-Known Member

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  4. Zancks
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    Zancks Community Manager

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    Some might even be sleeping at these times everyday due to diffrent timezones~f12

    This sounds fun and like a mechanic I remember from an Open World MMO called Silkroad. Sometimes there would be an announcement like „TigerGirl has spawned at Tiger Mountain“ and every1 would run there to find her because the spawn area was quite big. The one who did most dmg was mentioned in another Announcement afterwards. The closest thing like this we got right now might be the golden mushroom and witch, but a boss where you could outdamage a party would be fun!
     
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  5. Jooon
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    Example
    “World boss has spawned somewhere in the lion heart castle CC3”
    The entire party has to spread out and find the boss, basically whoever finds it first gets a slight advantage.
    Leadership skills and party play would be quite important in this one.

    With their 1hitting mechanics, Damage reflect and insane touch damage.
    We do need some player vs player content sometimes.
    Well, world boss concepts are used in a bunch of games & does shows fantastic results.
    I believe this might be something royals can venture for.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  6. Tect
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    Tect Well-Known Member

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    So wld it b fixed dmg like those event bosses or will it be heavily in the favour of pure dps parties with high range?
     
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  7. Cooler
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    I'd say maybe add something to von Leon's drops, like the mentioned coupon or his medal effect that grants extra time in the castle/infinite time w/ reduced exp, that way it's a choice instead of one or the other? That way the content is gated but still enjoyable in the way folks are demanding? Idk just an idea. I think waiting to see how good and rewarding the von Leon battle is will be a better barometer overall for changes
     
  8. nut
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    I like the idea in theory, as I have played many games with similar area boss piñatas. However I disagree on a few points, and I would not like to see something like this in LHC, at least not like the way you've outlined it.

    I think locating the boss would be quite trivial and would provide little to no advantage. Further, this player vs player content seems to be partly skill based, but ultimately relies on funding heavily. Many great PvP games/features are great precisely because they are purely, or majorly skill based. As you've outlined your idea right now, I don't see how it is not heavily skewed to highly funded players (Please don't mistake my opposition as some sort of punishment for such players.)

    @Tect Brought up the DPS point, but even with fixed damage you've now favored classes that can hit more lines faster.

    On the topic of the time limit in LHC, I was initially for the time limit and thought it was a good idea. At the very least, it was a good idea to have such a limit upon implementation, allowing us players to test the content on a larger scale than staff could on their own (although, a 2 hour limit initially would have been just as acceptable.) Given the many reasons in this thread (not all of which I agree with), and our knowledge of how great the exp gain currently is, I feel removal of the timer should definitely be considered, along with some small caveats (whether a coupon is added in and EXP is nerfed, for example).

    Lastly, since people already discussed the EXP rates and hard facts, I'll just give my feelings. My perspective changed on the timer when I looked back to when I was playing GMS in 2018 and was frustrated at how much content was time-gated (so many dailies making my head spin), and saw no real reason for such time-gates. Daily/weekly limits on bosses make sense for important reasons (giant exp, economy), but I think here we can find a happy medium, and I hope any future changes are made as cautiously as the implementation was.
     
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  9. Drueno
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    Why can't LHC just be like any other zone? Normal EXP/drop rates and no time limit. Balance it with the rest of the game. Players can choose whether they want to group up or not. Then, after you have completed the pre-quests, Von Leon will require an expedition to encounter him, with a time limit, and will drop your rewards. Why try and reinvent the wheel and over-complicate it?
     
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  10. Evan
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    Yes. For the 10th time. lol

    Even without the coupon it should still be the best grinding spot in the game if you have a group of 6 people.
     
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  11. Raynian
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    Raynian Well-Known Member

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    If you go with the coupon route, do NOT have it restricted to the peak hours. It hurts anyone playing from a different timezone, and doesn't feel like you're helping the active players so much as you're punishing everyone else.
    Also please keep card rates where they are now (without coupon) or slightly higher (with the coupon). For anyone trying to finish the book, the drop rates are exceptionally low as it is. also add a new tier of card medal thanks
     
  12. tazan
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    tazan Well-Known Member

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    R> 20 minute 5 man bearwolves

    Had one dc 20 minutes in, attempted a 5man, another dc 20 minutes after. What is the intended course of action here?
     
  13. Evan
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    GG.
     
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  14. LichWiz
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    LichWiz Well-Known Member

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    it would make more sense for it to happen in 2 or even 3 different times, to cover all the timezone peaks. This idea reminds me of a GMS raid boss (the bear one) that had specific hours in the day where he'd give double the mesos, you could only run him twice per day, but you needed about 20 random people to que up in the server in order to start the fight so nobody fought him in the downtime between the meso buffs, but once it was time, the entire server rushed there to do the raid
     
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  15. Jooon
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    Absolutely, something for the end game players and the stronger one is, the better rewarded they are. 100% Purely in favour of the pure DPS parties with high range & team play.
    The better geared they are, the better communication skills they have will be able to deal the most dps to that boss.

    Boss to spawn at random hours such as RR so there can't be a single-party gatekeeping it all the time.
    But seriously, there is absolutely no rewarding competition currently in royals.
    Still just a midnight idea.

    Perhaps rewarding the more hardcore players might not be a good plan, it's indeed a little too toxic for the highest dealing dmg party to receive the rewards.

    Can share a little more details on regards to this GMS raid boss?
    I do feel having content that promotes the entire server rushing to participate and actually stopper/appling it is a pretty good idea.
    The boss will only have a 15min uptime with example 3bil worth of HP.
    Veterans and new players will need to work together and everyone profits from it.
    Your party just needs to deal X amount dmg and everyone to survive in the map to receive rewards, so super ungeared ones, afkers can't just benefit from it.

    Rewards can be simple such as Token of Teamwork.
     
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  16. LichWiz
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    the boss is called ursus:

    https://maplestory.fandom.com/wiki/Ursus

    feel free to read up on it, it was very popular in maplestory reboot due to the big meso rewards
     
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  17. nut
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    I think another, more comparable example, is Hekaton: https://maplestory.fandom.com/wiki/Hekaton/Monster. As someone who has participated in both Ursus runs and Hekaton, both bosses had mechanics which make the boss fight challenging in their own ways, but those mechanics are impossible to have in this version of maple for sure. Ursus was fun to do with a boatload of people, and Hekaton being a server wide boss with a ranking system was quite fun as well, so I'm not entirely opposed to some ranking based boss.

    I snipped some stuff from your post.

    I think your suggestions are good, but you should probably think of making a separate thread (one that I would be glad to participate in.) At the very least, this should be considered after and beyond addressing the timer issue. The reason I say this is
    1. Your suggestion addresses quite a bit more than just LHC (competition, uniting playerbase) and requires a lot of fleshing out (I would also like to see competition based activities in Royals.)
    2. Some sort of timer removal will already be enough incentivize players to grind LHC.
    My main fear from your original outline was highly funded players monopolizing lucrative opportunities (which I've seen countless examples of in other games), but I don't think it's bad if the rewards are tailored appropriately (for example, like Dojo Gloves, participation rewards, untradeables, etc.)
     
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  18. Jooon
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    With the chain of bosses that a particular player have to participate daily.
    Krex - Krex Ring
    CWK - MoN
    HT - HTP
    Dojo - Dojo Belt
    Zak/Scarga - Helms

    How many hours do you think a average players have to play the enjoy the game after all these bosses?
    Reloots are basically the basics that every other player will prioritise especially those making their 2nd or 3rd characters.
    TLDR: EXP isn’t as valuable, and the exp in this grinding map isn’t even as good. Wot.

    From end game perspective? Those who are playing their lvl200 chars and min-maxing, these player base is probably larger then what the community thinks, and wouldn’t even spend a minute in LHC. Until VL is released that is.

    This imo is the core issue on regards to this content is basically, its just a subpar grinding map, no incentives no proper reward. Quad ulu farming and using your leveling character to loot while gaining exp, selling skele leech while leveling your bishop. sounds like a more valuable hour spent in game no?

    Personally, i wouldn’t see a decent increase in playerbase participating in LHC even if the time limitation is adjusted or grinding coupon is implemented, without giving the exchange system proper adjustments.

    Perhaps a totem exchange shop..
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
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  19. nut
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    The EXP, from my experience and from others' experiments, is on par with HT exp (if not, slightly greater than). That is, having a party of 6 active, individual players with essentially little to no requirements (don't need apples, don't need HS, CR, SED, etc... SE still valuable) will give you HT level experience. What about this is not valuable enough to incentivize people to grind? Do you have data from a run you did that contradicts this? The bosses/activities you listed (besides HT) don't come close to this EXP gain (correct me if I'm wrong), and would primarily be done for relooting after a certain point. I can't speak to peoples' priorities on reloots vs. EXP gain, but I don't think it's quite comparable, even given it's their 2nd or 3rd character.

    I do not think it's a subpar grinding map at all, and any one who has done a few LHC runs would probably disagree with your sentiment there as well. This content is not supposed to be catered to min-maxers or level 200's, the whole point of LHC is for those grinding to get to closer to that goal (the EXP grind with active players, no mules, etc.)

    As for your Quad Ulu comparison, can you enlighten me there? I think that is such a far removed comparison for several reasons that I don't even know where to begin to address it.

    So far from what I see player concerns are mainly about the timer and pressure it places on parties, leaving them with little to no wiggle room. The EXP is wonderful, the drops are above par for a grinding spot, and the totem exchange has some nice items in the pool.

    All that being said, I do agree that there should probably be slightly more incentive, or an adjustment such as a loot share system beyond totems. (For example, right now any drop besides totems are a free for all for pets.) I also think we should hold off on these incentives until we see the whole package, that is, until VL is released. I like the idea of an exchange shop, and would hope to see that when VL is released. We should probably have some coin system where coins dropped from VL are "purified" using totems. These purified coins can be used in a shop, as was done in GMS.

    - End of reply.

    Aside from that, I've been discussing the timer removal with a few more people. @Jooon brings up a good point in the sense of how much time people are willing to spend in LHC, given all the other grinds available. From this perspective alone, I could see extending the timer to be somewhere around 2-3 hours is reasonable.

    @Jinium Suggested to me that perhaps, similar to other games, there be a diminishing effect. That is, remove the "hard timer" and implement a "soft timer", where we have the following:
    • 1st hour: Full bonus exp
    • 2nd hour: 80% of the original exp
    • 3rd hour: 60% ...
    Of course, these are just example rates. This would apply to each person individually, and would allow for people to rotate in and out of a party, and players will leave when the exp gain is no longer to their taste (while still leaving room for hardcores who did all their dailies + still want to grind.) This is an idea I really like upon initial inspection... has someone mentioned this yet?
     
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  20. Zancks
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    Kinda like the coupon idea with a tier system.

    To reach out for lvl 200s it might be cool to give the option between an exp coupon and a Coupon which buffs the totems droprate.

    Do note that you could also sell „LHC Boost Service“ with 4 friends for 1 buyer that’s „lowlevel“ who would pay for being hardcarried while being active himself.
     
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