How to MP wash (double wash)

Discussion in 'Guides' started by jmmainvi, Dec 31, 2014.

  1. jmmainvi
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    TL; DR in Spoiler -
    1. level up with base int.
    2. put desired number of AP into MP.
    3. You will gain (base int/10 rounded DOWN) extra MP for each point you add
    4. Use an AP reset to remove the AP from MP and put it wherever you want (you must have put at least 1 point in HP previously)
    5. Carry on washing as normal, you now have more washes.

    It has been thought for a long time that double washing was not functional in maple royals. Due to recent discoveries in a bug report thread (http://mapleroyals.com/forum/threads/hp-washing-bug-cant-remove-mp.17991/) and investigated in a split thread (http://mapleroyals.com/forum/threads/hp-washing-double-washing.18157/) we now know that this in not the case.

    Background - what is HP washing?:

    HP washing is a technique used to create extra HP on a character, to enable certain classes to better survive at different bosses. This is possible because on level ups, characters gain extra MP depending on how much INT they have, and because HP and MP share a common "pool" of AP - so when a point is put into one of these, it can later be removed from either of them*.

    *there is a bug in royals, where if points have been put into MP, sometimes a number above a characters actual "minimum MP" will function as if it were really minimum MP, and you will be unable to remove AP from MP. This can be solved by adding one AP into HP, THEN resetting the points from MP.

    How to HP wash:


    There is already a guide on "how to HP wash" that can be found at http://mapleroyals.com/forum/threads/fully-revised-hp-washing-guide.8286/ which covers the process in more detail than I care to do at this time. The process in general, involves obtaining extra MP over your "minimum MP" (which is determined by your class) by some method, then adding AP points to HP, and taking those points out of MP. Obtaining extra MP requires you to have INT, which can be done by two methods - equips, or base. These are equivalent when it comes to extra MP gained from level up - every 10 TOTAL int will provide 1 extra MP on a level up.

    Where does MP washing fit in?


    It has recently come to light, that a "fresh AP" (that is, a point added from a level up, not a point reset from another stat using an AP reset) will provide some number of base MP determined by your class, but additionally will yield (BASE INT/10) additional MP. Using a reset to take a point out of MP only removes the base number, leaving us with a profit of (BASE INT/10) MP. This is simply another way to get extra MP to enable us to do more washes. For example:

    A Thief will naturally gain 10-12 MP per point placed into MP and will lose 12 mp per point reset.
    A Thief with 120 BASE INT will gain 22-24 MP per point placed into MP and will lose 12 mp per point reset.
    A Thief with 120 INT from equips will gain 10-12 MP per point placed into MP and will lose 12 mp per point reset.

    A Warrior will naturally gain 2-4 MP per Point placed into MP and will lose 4 MP per point reset.
    A Warrior with 100 BASE INT will gain 12-14 MP per point placed into MP an will lose 4 MP per point reset.
    A Warrior with 100 INT from equips will gain 2-4 MP per Point placed into MP and will lose 4 MP per point reset.

    So what is the MP washing Process?


    1. Level up with some number (multiple of 10 - it rounds DOWN) of Base int
    2. Put any number of your level up AP into MP. You will gain (class base) + (base int/10) MP for this.
    3. Use an AP reset to take that point out of MP and put it anywhere you like. You will lose (class washing cost) MP for this.*
    *See note/thread at top of post about MP removal bug.
    You have now generated extra MP. The process up to this point is called "MP washing" and can be used by mages that wish to hit max MP to better tank things with magic guard. Other classes can now use this bonus MP to perform additional HP washes - this is called "Double Washing" because you have performed both an MP wash, and then used that bonus MP to perform an HP wash.

    So what does this all mean?


    For the average player, this means very little. This method of washing costs an extra 45m per level at current prices, requires you to have a large amount of base int (which will later need to be reset, costing $$$$) to be effective, and is not necessary to survive any bosses at a level that is reasonable to kill them. This is not even necessary to wash to high numbers like 8, 10, or even 13k. What this will allow, if that players using base int to wash only need to keep that int for a fraction of the time they previously would have.

    What this also means is that theoretically an incredibly rich warrior could see themselves at 30k HP as low as level 50, and that 30K HP ranged characters are now a possibility. This also means that Base INT is a much more efficient washing method than previously thought, as MP washing for one level with only 60 base int will provide more extra MP than five levels with Billions of mesos worth of INT equips.

    And that's it! I may later expand this into a full HP/MP/Double washing guide, but until now, Pheelo's will fit that purpose just fine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
    itaykaderski, KungLee, lozy and 10 others like this.
  2. Synyster
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    NOTE: (Super Tired Sorry if I'm wrong!!)


    What would be interesting would be a guide per class that would be.... for example... putting X base INT in on your Y Class can net you Z HP range by level Quack. Soon, I will be washing my Brand New NL by going pure int (minus the base stat req of 25 dex) and it would be interesting to know what level i could potentially hit 30k hp (or 18750 with HB). I'm sure a bunch of people wanting to do High class bossing or who just want a lot of hp would be interested to know. so something like...

    lvl 1 + 9 to dex
    lvl 2 - 3 + 9 to dex, 1 to int (22 Dex Total + 3 dex wgs @ lvl 10 for Job advance)
    lvl 4 - 10 + 35 to int (Don't forget your int gears @ lvl 8 wand)
    (I have no idea if you need BASE stats to job advance Lol)
    Lvl 10 stats 22 dex 40 int
    Lvl 11 - 30 + 100 to int
    Lvl 30 base int 140
    lvl 31 - 70 + 300 int
    Lvl 71 - 78 + 40 int
    Lvl 78 base int total 480

    this gives us 58 - 60 mp per "fresh ap" point put into mp
    so from the next 2 levels lets say we all 10 points put into mp
    thats 580 - 600 mp for 2 levels worth of ap.
    -120 mp from resets
    leaves us with a total of 460-480 mp for washing (38-40 washes...= ~760 - 960 HP gained PER 2 levels)
    so almost 1 k per 2 levels... not including what hp you already have.
    Guessing around level 100 a thief could have 30k hp from double washing.
    That math was Not including any int gears
    then have fun with resetting. =P

    I'm really tired at this point in time, but something like that per class to decide how much base int to add to get to max hp effectively
    sounds like it would be really helpful. this is also assuming you are leeching your character and using apples / energizers to job advance =P

    I might fiddle around with numbers and contribute to this. assuming i have the right idea

    Getting this threads idea into my head gets me more excited about washing my NL =] +1 props to you
     
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  3. Plenty
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    Plenty Well-Known Member

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    If Pheelo isn't updating the HP Wash guide anymore, I could take it upon myself to rename it.

    I find it strange that Int Equips do not work for double washing,

    @Synyster
    It has to be base. Equips won't work.
     
  4. jmmainvi
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    jmmainvi Donator

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    Chris is the person to go to for those numbers. I believe his most recent calculations have you hitting 30k on a BM by 160 if you go pure int and MP wash from level 70-120. The whole process would cost between 13 and 15 billion depending on what you consider the price of AP resets to be.

    @Christopher Chance Correct me if I'm wrong.
    Besides some minor efficiency things with your starting levels and the fact that you need base dex to advance, this is accurate. MP washing becomes much more effective with higher numbers of base int though, so while it might be possible to hit 30k in early 4th job (though I doubt it) it wouldn't be the most economical option.

    Remember that this method isn't important for people who just want to hit 8, 10, or even 13k. This only becomes necessary if you want to wash to 15k+ and not be pure int until your 180's. If someone is going to invest double-digit billions into washing their character, not to mention all the hours leeching it, then IMO that person should be doing their own math, to figure out what balance of "economical" MP washes they want to do Vs. how long they want to keep the INT vs. what their goal happens to be.
     
  5. Plenty
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    Plenty Well-Known Member

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    For such a simple concept, I think it's good to have a TL; DR section for this because for beginners, this is extremely overwhelming.
     
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  6. jmmainvi
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    jmmainvi Donator

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    Frankly, the information here isn't relevant to beginners. I also generally hate tl-dr's because they lead to people not reading anything at all and then asking stupid questions, but I'll add a spoilered TL; DR at the top.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  7. Plenty
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    Just for to let everyone know, MP Washing is not a cheaper alternative to regular HP Washing with Int Equips. MP Washing just gets you to your goal quicker and can actually be more expensive because of all the base Int you'll be resetting out for later.
     
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  8. Sila
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    Just wanted to point out the dex you need for job advancement must be base. Unless someone is able to prove me wrong? I believe that's also why "dexless" sins are unable to reset their dex below 25 even at higher levels.
     
  9. Sila
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    Fixed the spoiler issue you were having, Christopher~
     
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  10. Sila
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    Also an easy fix.
     
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  11. Synyster
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    I'm curious as to why you added to Luk
    EDIT: I see why. but couldn't you just use apples / energizers or would that not work because of lack of LUK


    Also curious if that is just a bug that you can't have less than 25 dex or was it inteded to be that way.


    Props to Christopher Chance for that mini guide in a guide. I will be using this and i will have my 30k NL. Bring on the PB. lol =PP
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2015
  12. Sila
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    Energizers/any attack potion won't have an effect if you dont even have any base luk to work with, as far as I know.
    Also, not having less than 25 dex is intended I believe. It was definitely like that in gms as far i know.

    @Christopher Fixed up some coding in your guide and fixed your spoiler issues too.
     
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  13. Synyster
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    Well its good to know that 25 base luck is dexless. makes it easier to get to that 150 mark.
    You should let me borrow that luk robee for 13 mins =PP

    Working on a bish now and hell yes to extreme washing. I want the sickening screenshot posted on this thread of all 30k exteme washers =PP

    Granted. it will be a while for funds and whatnot but i am going to do it, and then complete all the quest.
    #Perfectionist.:xD:

    Again. Awesome work on that mini guide. I am impressed at how quickly it came to be. =]
     
  14. StaticShock
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    3072 hp - 1669mp - 81+71 int - 12k-15k goal by 160 (i know it wont happen) or at least what will i have by 160
     
  15. jmmainvi
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    Lv 89 means 1394 min mp.

    1669 current MP means you have (1669 - 1392 =) 275 spare MP at this point, or 22.9 available washes. I'll round down for safety. (and I hope you remembered to account for dep star this time.)

    22 washes at 18 average HP per wash (assuming you use reset AP, because level ups are taken up by MP washing) is (22 * 18 =) 396 HP, for a total of (392 + 3072 = ) 3468 HP currently available to you.

    You're gaining 22 HP per level from level ups, and 15 spare MP per level from level ups.

    By 160 that's a total of (160 - 89 = ) 71 level ups. Your HP gain from level ups will be (71 * 22 = ) 1562 on average, for a total of (3468 + 1562 = ) 5030 HP. This is neglecting the boost you get from job advance, but I believe that number should be around 500 HP. (5030 + 500 = ) 5530 HP available.

    Over 71 level ups you will also gain (71 * 15 = ) 1065 spare MP or a total of (1065 / 12 = ) 88.75 washes. Again I will round down. (88 * 18 = ) 1584 additional HP for a grand total of (5530 + 1584 = ) 7114 HP at 160 if you keep your current int and do no MP washing but still use reset AP to do the washes. You would expect about 7554 HP if you used level up AP to do your HP washes because of the greater returns thieves get from that.

    In order to hit 12k then, you need (12,000 - 7114 = ) 4886 additional washed HP, or a total of (4886 / 18 = rounding UP for safety) 272 washes. That many washes will cost (272 * 12 = ) 3264 spare MP. With your current base of 81 INT, you generate 7 spare MP per MP wash performed, meaning you would need to MP wash (3264 / 7 = rounding UP) 467 times. You are able to MP wash 5 times per level, meaning you would need to MP wash for the next 93.4 levels to achieve the spare MP required to hit 12k HP. That's longer than your goal of doing this by level 160 - it's actually a few of the mp gained at level 183.

    MP washing with your base INT total isn't cost effective, and it's not going to get you to any of the milestones you desire to get to.

    If you were to add 20 base over your next 4 level ups, you would be lv 93 with 67 level ups remaining to 160. You would gain a further 11 washes from leveling up with your additional INT. That brings your totals to 7314 available HP, 260 required washes to 12k, 3124 MP to get those washes, and 9 mp per point washed for 347 required MP washes, or the next 69 level ups. If you added that 20 base and MP washed at every level, you would (statistically) hit your desired 12k at lv 162. The Total reset number to do this would be 825 resets, including those required for the washes you already have available and the resets to remove your current base int.

    If you were to add a further 20 to your base over your next 8 level ups, you would be lv 97 with 63 level ups remaining to 160. You would gain a further 10 washes from leveling with your additional int for a total of 7494 available HP, 250 required washes to 12k, 3000 MP to get those washes, and 11 mp per point washed for 273 required MP washes or the next 54 level ups. There is a bit of a grey area here, because HP washing with level up AP suddenly becomes possible. You might expect this to take as few as 50 levels worth of MP washes. I'm going to go with 52 levels of mp washes, and then using level up HP for your next 11 levels of HP washes. That cuts around 10 required HP washes off your total, meaning you would need a grand total (including already available washes and removal of base int) of 727 resets (unless I'm calculating something terribly wrongly.)

    Hitting 15k would require you to immediately double your current base, so I'm not going to bother with those calculations unless you tell me you're willing to do that.

    As you can see, with a goal like 12k, the more base you add the more efficient you become. I would expect the tipping point to be somewhere around 160 base, but as I have two lab reports to write up tonight, I'm not going to do all that math out for you. Sorry!
     
  16. andrewqx
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    hi i hv done some reading about hp & mp washing..
    i understand about hp washing but quite confuse about mp washing..
    here is my question:

    i am a bowman and start doing normal hp washing from low lv..
    i hv int gear of total 11o int..
    now i am lv 130 bm with hp 7,100 and minimum of mp..
    i hv 45 ap un-used..

    can i start doing mp washing from now..? and how..?
    add existing 45 ap to mp..? or to int..?
    my target is to gain more HP (than normal hp washing)

    can i add 2 fresh ap to MP and 3 fresh ap to HP every time i lv up..?
    then use 5 ap reset to (minus MP add dex)..?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
  17. jmmainvi
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    If you dont already have base int, and are not willing to get base int you will not benefit from MP washing.

    Unless you are willing to invest about 3b into mp washing, it is not worthwhile for you. Just keep going with regular HP washing.
     
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  18. Dessi
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    @jmmainvi Jake, my NL is lvl 64 and just hit 300 base int, so i decided to start throwing the AP into mp and reset it out but i can't do it when i double click my ap reset. - APreset/Down mp/Up Int/enter, nothing seem to be done. :3 thanks
     
  19. jmmainvi
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    @Dessi put a point into HP first, then you'll be able to take two points out of MP. After that, things should proceed as normal.
     
  20. Manezu
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    Just my little piece i started double wash my hunter (adding base int 6xish and mp washing 75+) if my calculations are correct (125 base int + 5 from deputy star) ill reach somewhat around 7.5k HP at lvl 120. This Is more efficient than i tought. :D
     

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