Feedback Thread: Mules and Multi Client

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Dasha, Mar 14, 2021.

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  1. ControladorMidi
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    ControladorMidi Donator

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    The only thing i want 100% for a new boss/content is be able to zerk, even if its hard/barely possible, as long theres a way to do it constantly and dont lose too much dps.
     
  2. Cooler
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    CSHT = taller, smaller platforms, no multiclienting LOL

    And chaos ergoth with undead bigfoots and waves of elderwraiths. Drops cs scraps, ergoth's staff, cloak. Alliance members can run, not just guildies

    Big yes to the 2D dodging stuff

    And about seduce, max HW having a passive 8-9% seduce resist would be a lot more interesting. Maybe increasing HW levels too




    Agree with all except 6. And on 3, the eq just not being grey, only white or blue would be nice too.
    CS scrolls and scraps (stable money splits as opposed to fluctuating books), clean slate scrolls, APR, chaos slayer medals/titles/label/chat, invisible guild nx, invisible medal nx, invisible pet nx
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  3. GunzGaming
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    I would like to point something out.

    Yes, these ideas are awesome. But they require MUCH more work, which I don't think current staff can do.
    So the easiest fix would be, a blanket restrict all boss/pq runs to one client or 2 max.

    Hard pill to swallow.

    I totally get it will piss off a lot of people that made the mules already. But I feel like it's worth it. I would prefer the "hard mode" bosses, so you can do both and have options. But the fact is just restricting clients would also fix the problem of how mules totally take away the core gameplay of bossing. So that might be the outcome of us discussing this.
     
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  4. Kethoe
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    Kethoe Well-Known Member

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    Please elaborate how making such a huge change to an already unstable community would fix a majority of our biggest issues right now.

    - RWT/hackers/botters - This puts legitimate players at a further disadvantage in the market as limiting clients limits ways to earn mesoes to compete with the hacker-fueled inflation that has been rampant.
    - New player retention - There seems to be this idea that removing multi-clienting/muling will open up the game more socially and force veterans to bring new players into their runs, to fill spots that mules would have taken - thus keeping new players more engaged. I believe the harsh honest truth is that this won't happen. I would argue, on the contrary, that mules are a way that have bridged gaps between old and new players. Before the crash change, investing in and having a lvl 81 crash mule allowed new players to bypass range expectations of more seasoned players. Something I also mentioned in a previous thread, too, was that when I first started Royals and learned that multi-clienting was available, it opened the game up to so many interesting and fascinating possibilities and really added to the draw and charm of this private server. I think it's evident through these forum posts that I am not alone in feeling this way. (Edit: I also believe that multi-clienting allows new players to "catch-up" with veterans, because those are willing to put in the work and effort to multi-client can use established, or find new, creative ways to make mesos that would otherwise be extremely limited with a 1- or 2-client limit.)
    - Staff/Community Relationship - By pushing for yet another band-aid solution with huge ramifications, despite so much debate and disagreement in community will just add even more tension in the relationship between staff and community. Rushing to limit clients, when there are so many other issues that have been plaguing the server is sure to cause more issues than it might solve.

    You say that "mules take away core gameplay of bossing", but I would argue that's just your personal opinion. I believe mules, if anything, have added immensely to my bossing experience here in Royals and enhanced the gameplay greatly. I say that until the more obvious, blatant issues are resolved, namely Hackers, RWT, and Botters, slapping an arbitrary limit to clients seems foolish at best.
     
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  5. sparky95
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    Surprisingly, it was easier to catch RWTers back in 2017~2018 when multi client/muling wasn't as prevalent. Everyone was making a steady and slow progress that whoever deviated from the standard was immediately flagged as a cheater. This is when an average of 1 year was needed before one could acquire a perfect weapon. Currently, anyone can jump to end game within months if they invest hardcore into multi clienting. This actually gave more hiding room to RWTers because that slow progression is no longer the norm. Today, who can we report as a RWT suspect when they say they have 5 mules and have played for 6 months?
     
  6. Jooon
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    Just a glimpse of mage farmers level , store history , pet closeness and online history will provide more then sufficient information to tell whether their multimage farming is legit or not.

    You can even calculate how much mesos has a player approximately earned simply by knowing he owns
    - example x2 lvl170 archmage.
    How many hours does one needs to farm on average to get a 12/56 rc in ulu have also been heavily tested.

    Trio duku leech farmers that keep their mage level low should have a popularity of leech sales & conversation history to go about as well.

    Horntail mules. I’d prefer not to talk about earning mesos in that boss since the past 6 months.
    Its saddening.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
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  7. sparky95
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    Back then, counting the number of owned characters and their levels gave enough info to make a report. How would normal players find out about their chat or sales history to file a report? There's only 1 admin who can go through these logs and there's limited work he can handle on daily basis. GMs can barely help with RWT bans now because of the added complexity. As we explore more "creative", extreme methods, it gives RWTers more excuses to hide behind and more criteria to filter through before a guilty stamp can be slapped.
     
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  8. GunzGaming
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    As GMs have stated: Autoban, and increasing GM staff is the priority. So I doubt such changes would be implemented prior to the completion of higher priority items. Not 100% sure about that, they're quite unpredictable. But the discussion was about bossing/muling, and if those issues are resolved, then that point is redundant. I do agree, it would make it slightly more difficult for mesos acquisition if they did that now. But VERY slightly, we both know bossing is a very inefficient way of making Mesos. If they revert farming nerfs in general that would help a lot.

    There seems to be that idea because that's what a lot of people think and say. It was also how it used to be prior to the mule meta, especially in GMS pre-BB. Range expectations are also a poor excuse for new players not being able to run in things. I would blame player toxicity and the community on that one. In Legends, they don't do that, and if they do it is extremely rare. They generally just have a nicer player base than we do, so that's a US problem and not a game problem. Currently, they currently have a rapidly increasing player base so I think our main issue is our community above all else.

    This is a bit contradictory. This depends a lot on when/how they would implement such changes. The fact we're having this discussion, with community input, and thorough GM involvement, creating open discussion between them and us is showing that they're trying to build that relationship and make an educated decision on future changes. We're just fresh off a hot dumpster fire that was update 70 so I get the skepticism.

    ok here's the juicy stuff. Everything is a personal opinion, and other people also have similar opinions. They're posting here and I talk with them. I agree, those issues need to be fixed first. But like, the same 4 people keep saying that over and over again and it's getting tiring, and not allowing the discussion to move forward.

    From my perspective, and just logically, muling in bosses creates a situation that is very Post-BB feeling. Being able to play one class, and have all the abilities, is extremely similar to how the current Maplestory is played. The only difference is that you press alt-tab for those skills instead of just having them all on your keyboard on one client. Being that this is a pre-bb server, I feel this is not aligned with the core gameplay/design of Royals and continues to stop discussions from progressing and become an obstacle in class balancing or any general positive game changes. I would like to repeat myself, I feel this way about mules for BOSSING and only BOSSING. Multi-client farming/grinding/self-leeching is, long story short, fuckin awesome, and should stop getting nerfed. Because you like multi-clients at bosses and want to continue to do so is a valid argument. But I whole-heartedly would like to enjoy the game based on Pre-BB experiences/mechanics and don't want the server to continue on a path that resembles a completely different game that has been derailed and poorly managed.
     
  9. Gabriel A
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    vs RWT: unable to drop any kind of armor,weapon, nx or valuable, exept bossing items like zakum (what's the real purpose of really throwing things away anyway)

    vs multiclient: can be used as 4 for limit, unable to use mules on bossing: HT, ZK, cwkpq , toad, auf, etc.

    vs vote abuse: ap reset and gasha disable from shop but can be optained in game ( bossing in this way will increase price from resets and people going to get better splits on runs)

    vs HP : players can buy a item in shop ex: int 50 , int 100, int 150, int 200. to avoid can be abused once it activated will recieve the buff only 30 seconds and they cannot be stacked, in that way the new players can buy the items if want wash via NX through voting daily (In this way the players will continue voting since they want their valuable wash, however they can only earn mp in this way, which will be necessary to buy ap reset and gashas ingame, if they do not want the wash, they have the necessary mp to NOT COMPLAIN, and remove that ritual once and for all)
     
  10. Anguer
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    No, please. Multiclienting and this mulestory meta is just destroying the game. Having 4 or 5 active clients in order to solo some bosses is basically like playing GMS nowdays, is not even near to what was the server a few years ago and how was Maplestory at the beginning. This needs to be retired from the game, and compensate it with rewards to players for having progress in a single account, more content to the game, in a way that players (specially new players) get rewarded for playing just a single character from a job that they want.

    Nowdays when a new player joins the server, he/she basically plays for a few days until realizing that most likely, his character is going to be useless. Then for having near chances to getting progress in the same rate or either not being excluded by the community he/she would have to choose:
    - Make a bishop even if you don't like the class and farm mesos selling leech until you have enough money to invest a few bills to wash the character that you actually want to play
    - Temporally quit the game and vote once each day for six months, sell the NX in order to have enough mesos to fund and wash your main character
    - Attempt to vote abuse and likely get a permanent ban
    - Quit the game
    After you somehow manage to pass one of the above, realize that you need to open another three or four clients to have characters that are (almost) mandatory for your boss runs (skills, actives, etc)
    Is this what a player is expecting to experience in Royals when they join?
     
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  11. jameshk221
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    Too lazy to read and not sure if it's been suggested/can be done.

    In terms of multi clienting for bosses, would introducing a quest system that when completed, grants the party a specific buff? (Similarly to how ht gives a unique buff upon completion).

    It could also be a way for new and old players to interact. Like completing PQ's could do it. Smaller than 6 expedition parties would be encouraged to bring along lower leveled people in the waiting area to meet minimum/class requirements.

    Should also be limited to 1-2 times a day.

    ^ also assuming multi client for bosses is not allowed. Otherwise it would be giga broken

    Or it could be an ass idea idk just had the thought pop up in my head.
     
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  12. Cooler
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    This issue still lingers in my mind, and I'm comforted to see it's also in the mind of others and I appreciate this thread for feedback.

    I instinctually dislike and disagree with everything about the MC/mule/leech/farm culture, it leads to burnout, boredom, hacking/RWT, takes leeching from the back alley to a superhighway everyone has to build their lives and livelihood around, discourages actually playing characters you like, enforces the toxic swiss army knife end game culture, hugely discourages new players who can comprehend the totality of the meta's machinations, is an obscene dedication of time, and sharply and ironically isolates people from ever interacting with eachother, while enriching the already rich (soloing auf/HT)

    I personally think it adds nothing of value to the game and devalues the core aspects of maples MMO play and reward. Lots and lots and lots of alternatives.

    But first I just want to really let people know how much I do not give a fuck how much they think it's fun and enjoyable to MC so many chars and earn your white scrolls and circlet scrolls. It's bogus, and the circlet is a hugely warped mistake, that should really be reconsidered before more people invest their fake or real money on it.
    This is not unrelated to this topic.
    I really think the circlet should be a double edged sword, like it:
    • zeros your def/m.def/avoid,
    • lowers your max HP so you would need HB
    • causes all skills to consume HP
    • slowly drains HP
    • increases MP costs significantly
    • diminishes all potion effects by 10% or more
    • no passive healing
    • halves/thirds shifter values
    • lowers your speed/jump
    • lowers your buff durations
    • increases all damage taken by 1.1x
    • no pets allowed when wearing it
    • limited time it can be worn with CD
    • etc etc etc etc.
    It's just too obscenely powerful for this server and the fact that people have the resources to sink into it and be ascended by nearly 400 AP is just insulting, it should come at a cost and risk to the player and not just to your fake or real wallet. Super items like that in RPGs always have some kind of drawbacks. Allowing it as is just because some have already completed one, or are in the process is a bad move imo, and shows no forethought to the issues it creates, or interest to stop them, and that players who are so obscenely wealthy can have it their way just because


    Anyway lol, I really do think a blessing of the fairy type buff, or "new game+" concept is better overall for the server than mule/MC/leech/farmstory.

    It would not be per 10 levels like vanilla, and it would not be possible to stack every class at once class like another server does. Something more along the lines of, once you get your first char to 200, then all other chars or new chars on that account gets some bonus stats. After that, then you can get stat bonuses every x levels on a new char. Each char at 200 on the same account lets you run one extra boss run than normal. So if you have one lvl 200, you could run zak 3 times a day if you wanted with any char, or shao twice (shao would not be soloable, or duoable in this dream server) with that account. Then if you get a second lvl 200, +1 again, but caps there. Or maybe caps at the first +1, and additional late game perks are rewarded, like increased HP quest values

    Making players have a main account with their mains on a single account is how the game was supposed to be played, the min/maxing isolated solo ability of MC is really toxic and destructive overall for the server IMO.

    If it was my server, I'd be very frank and open about this and have open dialogue about it and about the coming changes to the server. I'd make sure new players understood right off that it was in a transition stage and to MC only if they understand that, and tell them that we'd be releasing RP character transfer services to rearrange their accounts how they like (20 bucks a transfer). Itd be worth it for my time investment, that's for sure, and probably worth more honestly, especially if you already breathe the rare air of having multiple lvl 200s.

    This goes a long way to making a more robust and active community at all levels, not just end game, because folks will be willing and wanting to replay the game on new chars and have no reason to make useless mules that get put on the leech conveyor belt to level, and you'd have to pq and party and quest and grind and grow together actually (reeeee).

    But that's just my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2021
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  13. BertEast
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    I know this discussion isn't really simmering anymore but I blame a lot of inflation issues on multiple mule farming/leeching.

    Overall not a big fan on how central it is to the meta - how necessary /again/ it makes having a mage character, and how its easily the most efficient way to access AP washing and anything else that requires high degrees of funding, making it feel almost necessary just to afford certain aspects of the game.
    As for party play, I do enjoy how it lets you and your friends team up on bosses easier but if there were more people in the server I don't believe mules would be so necessary. I don't have any mules in Royals but I've had mules on other servers in the past.
     
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  14. ItzLeo
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    When i was leveling on cpq i find no one to do with me, só i did it with mules.

    Same happen with few other content..
    so, multiclient sometimes is a solution, not the problem.

    About rmt, a server i played of ragnarok called Novaro was a term that to trade valuable ekips just with a gm superview, its not a way to get less problem?
     
  15. Dasha
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    Dasha GM

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    I would like to thank everyone who participated in this discussion and shared their valuable experience on the topic of multi-client!

    Despite the initial misunderstanding concerning the motives behind a Staff member bringing this topic to discussion, I believe this thread achieved its goal and gave us a glimpse into your personal experience. It's interesting how despite us interacting with the same content we all have different thoughts and share various opinions on how it reflects on our gameplay.

    Moving forward I hope that there would be more opportunities to have similar conversations, not necessarily aiming to reach one absolute opinion but more so sharing our own experiences as a part of the MapleRoyals community.
     
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