In Discussion [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by nut, Jun 4, 2022.

  1. nut
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    Hello everyone. The purpose of this thread, as mentioned in the June GM Blog, is to collect reasonable skill changes and balancing propositions. We will be looking more closely at this kind of feedback in the coming weeks.

    By doing this, we can more easily view the big picture as a whole, be transparent, and keep the community involved. Players are encouraged to reference existing feedback and point to specific posts which support their ideas. Some propositions may be skill changes, while others may be changes to content that may cater to a specific type of class (one such example being the Auf Haven hit box change catering to melee classes.) Do note that this is a list of items to be investigated; none of these changes are guaranteed to make it into the game.

    If you don't see something in this post and it has been discussed extensively before, you may simply link to it so it can be added (and feel free to summarize it.) If it's never been discussed before, you may make a new feedback thread to start a discussion.

    It would be best if all propositions are accompanied by proper justifications and details, rather than "please increase the duration of skill x" or "please increase the damage of skill y". Here are some things that may help you fill in the details:
    • The motivation. Is a class lacking in some area they shouldn't?
    • What do you expect or hope the change will accomplish?
    • Where does this proposition place a class or classes in the big picture?
    • Does this change have its place in Royals?

    We look forward to your contributions.

    Below is a more up-to-date list from the September 2022 Staff Blog, but our internal list is ever evolving. Once again note that this is a list of ideas; a change on this list is no indication of whether or not it will make it to the live game.

    Hero
    • Rage: stacking with attack potions
    • Enrage:
      • have it stack with attack potions
      • give it an STR Bonus
      • cancel damage reflect
      • ignore the weapon def of the target
      • make it undispellable
    • Brandish:
      • Increase damage by 20% to 40% when attacking a single unit
      • Increase vertical attack range so Heroes can consistently hit HT head A and B
    • Advanced combo attack: buff its % damage increase
    • Panic: darkness debuffs bosses
    • Power Guard: also reduce the incoming Magic damage
    • Power Stance: buff from 90% to 95% at max level

    Paladin
    • 2h Blunt Weapons: increase base atk by 10-20
    • Blast: allow it to exceed the current 199,999 damage cap
    • Guardian:
      • Keep the block chance active at all times, but the push effect becomes toggleable
      • Both the block chance and push effect are toggled together
      • Remove the stun and knockback
    • Fix Threaten
    • Power Guard: reduce the incoming Magic damage
    • Power Stance: buff from 90% to 95%
    • Total Crash: Revert it back to an active skill and not a buff
    • Fire/Lightning/Ice/Holy charge: reduce the skill delay
    • Ice Charge: increase the freeze duration
    • Heaven’s Hammer: Reduce its skill delay
    • Advance Combo Blow:
      • increase its range
      • fix its stun
      • fix success rate bug/change success rate to 100% at level 1
    Dark Knight
    • Crimson Arcglaives:
      • buff its speed to fast and increase its attack
      • give it a spear variant
    • Polearm Crusher:
      • increase range horizontally in the direction your character faces and vertically below your character
      • buff its attack
    • Spear Crusher:
      • increase range horizontally in the direction your character faces and vertically below your character
      • buff its attack
    • Achilles: Buff the damage reduction from 20% to 25%
    • Berserk:
      • Buff its damage
      • Let it activate below 60% HP instead of 50% HP
      • Add brackets for 40-100% Hp with less hp and more damage (scaling)
      • Cap Cleric‘s Heal effect at 50% of Dark Knight's HP
    • Power Stance: buff from 90% to 95%
    • Sacrifice: Make it a 100% slash skill
    • Aura of the Beholder: Give it a self-res with a 1-2h cooldown on max level
    • Dragon's Blood: stack with Atk potions
    • Cap Cleric‘s heal effect at 50% of Dark Knight's HP
    • Combine Hex of the Beholder all into one buff
    Bowmaster
    • Arrows: Implement a new rechargeable set of arrows (craftable)
    • Dragons Breath:
      • enable it in LHC
      • allow it to work close range
      • allow it to work mid-air
      • increase its vertical range
    • Power Knockback:
      • enable it in LHC
    • Concentrate:
      • give it a temporary stance rate
      • give it an increased crit rate
      • let it stack with atk potions
    • Phoenix:
      • increase its damage
      • give it fire damage over time
      • let it be summonable simultaneously with Silver Hawk
      • Give it a buff icon that you can cancel
    • Focus: increase its avoidability
    • Puppet: Give it a buff icon that you can cancel

    Marksman
    • Bolts: Implement a new rechargeable set of bolts (craftable)
    • Raven's Eye: buff it
    • Wide array of feedback - from the Improved MM Feedback Thread
    • Power Knockback:
      • enable it in LHC
      Dragons Breath:
      • enable it in LHC
      • allow it to work in mid-air
      • allow it to work at a close range
      • increase its vertical range
    • Frostprey:
      • buff its damage
      • Let it be summonable simultaneously with Golden Eagle
      • Give it a buff icon that you can cancel
    • Strafe: Increase number of arrows shot from 4 to 5 on Strafe lv30
    • Snipe: Reduce end lag
    • Piercing Arrow: Reduce its charge-up time by 25%
    • Focus: increase its avoidability
    • Blizzard: Buff its damage
    • Blind: reduce mobs accuracy further
    • Puppet: Give it a buff icon that you can cancel
    Night Lord
    • Stars:
      • Add flame throwing star (29 Atk, 1,5k per set)
      • Add infinite throwing knifes (29 Atk, 2k per set)
    • Ninja Storm: Enable it in LHC
    • Venomous Star:
      • enable it in LHC
      • make it toggleable
    • Taunt: change it to do only 1 damage

    Shadower
    • Dark Sight:
      • Let pressing Dark Sight again cancel it
      • Let any attack cancel it
      • Allow Heroes Will to be used while in dark sight
    • Assassinate:
      • Add iFrames to its 4th hit
      • Remove dark sight as a requirement
      • Fix damage bug: 3rd person point of view shows critical hits with sharp eyes, while 1st person does not.
    • Assaulter: Reduce its animation time by 50%, and increase the draw distance
    • Venomous Stab:
      • enable it in LHC
      • make it toggleable
    • Taunt: change it to do only 1 damage
    • Other: Dark Sight -> Boomerang Step -> Assassinate. Requires low ping and is claimed to be much higher DPS than Dark Sight -> Assassinate -> Boomerang Step. Can that be eliminated?
    Bishop
    • Dispel: change it to no longer affect mob buffs
    • Angel Ray: buff its damage
    • Holy Symbol: Reduce movement penalty after casting it
    • Bless: increase its duration
    • Mystic Door: Give it a buff icon that you can cancel
    • Bahamut:
      • Let it be summonable simultaneously with Dragon
      • Give it a buff icon that you can cancel

    Fire/Poison
    • Fire Demon:
      • let it work on bosses
      • fix its effect
      • let Speed Infusion affect its casting time
    • Paralyze:
      • increase its dmg
      • let Speed infusion affect its casting time
    • Seal:
      • buff it from 95 to 100%
      • give it a low chance to work on bosses
    • Elquines:
      • increase its attack range
      • Give it a buff icon that you can cancel
    • Meditation: make it stackable with m.atk pots
    • Elemental Composition: Let it give mobs/bosses a poison weakness

    Ice/Lightning
    • Ice Demon:
      • let it work on bosses
      • fix its effect
      • let Speed Infusion affect its casting time
    • Chain Lightning:
      • increase its dmg
      • remove the decreasing damage per mob mechanic
      • let Speed Infusion affect its casting time
    • Seal:
      • buff it from 95 to 100%
      • give it a low chance to work on bosses
    • Ifrit:
      • increase its attack range
      • Give it a buff icon that you can cancel
    • Meditation: make it stackable with m.atk pots
    Buccaneer
    • Transformation: Allow mount use while being transformed
    • Super Transformation:
      • Allow mount use while being super transformed
      • increase its duration to 180s
      • Let the duration scale from lvl 1 to 20
    • Barrage: allow it to exceed the current 199,999 damage cap
    • Energy Charge:
      • remove the monster knockback ability from it
      • remove the damage-dealing ability from it
      • make it charge quicker
      • make it last longer
    • Backspin Blow:
      • let it hit 6 monsters instead of 3
      • Reduce its delay when used with Corkscrew blow
    • Corkscrew Blow:
      • let it hit 6 monsters instead of 3
      • Reduce its delay when used with Backspin blow
    • Energy Blast: let it hit 6 monsters instead of 4
    • Dragon Strike: Decrease its delay when used again

    Corsair
    • Burst Fire: Separate it from Double Shot and make it an active skill
    • Adjust the Avoid Formula from DEX * 0.125 + LUK * 0.5 to DEX * 0.25 + LUK * 0.5 (other classes, but Bucc use it too)
    • Battleship:
      • HP rework regarding 1/1 attacks
      • HP Rework from (4,000*Skill level)+ (2,000* [Character level -120]) to (8,000*Skill level) + (1,500*[Character level-120])
      • Disable skill delay after mounting onto battleship after using homing beacon or octopus
      • Enable casting Echo on the battleship
    • Aerial Strike:
      • Reduce its animation time by 50%
      • Enable casting it while on the battleship
      • Enable casting it while moving and jumping
    • Hypnotize: Increase the number of tameable monsters with Hypnotize from 1 to 5.
    • Recoil Shot: Decrease its cooldown by 33%.
    • Wrath of Octopi: increase range vertically and horizontally
    • Elemental Boost: increase the damage over time effect by 2-5 seconds
    • Gaviota:
      • Make it a summon like Phoenix/Frostprey/Bahamut/Ifrit/Elquines
      • Give it a buff icon that you can cancel
    • Rapid Fire: make it castable midair and while using wings
    • Other: Reduce or remove corsairs melee range
    • Other: Rework some of the Master Level requirements of the 3rd job Outlaw skills to 4th job skills. Using ice/fire splitters in the 4th job is still relevant from elemental boost. One really should be able to max Ice splitter, but you can't due to the requirements for Aerial Strike, Homing Beacon, and Wrath of Octopi.
    • Other: Make pets follow char speed, not ship speed (when pet quest is done)
    General
    • Heroes Will
      • No mana cost
      • Cure more types of abnormal status
    Content
    • Add pet equip for accuracy scrolls


    :warrior: Warrior
    Hero
    • Range or Enrage stacking with attack potions. (Brought up many times before, most recent thread.) This is challenging and developers have looked at it before (considered a change for Enrage adding STR bonus.)
    Paladin
    • Allow Blast to exceed the current 199,999 damage cap. Uncapping Paladin's Blast
    • Make Guardian a toggle skill, similar to final attack toggle change. Currently, when wearing a shield with skill points in Guardian, one has the chance (25% at maxed) to "block" (dodge, like shifter) attacks. This also pushes mobs, including bosses, when activated. The main issue is that the push behavior is sometimes undesirable. Issue With Guardian Skill.
      • Proposal 1: Keep the block chance active at all times, but the push effect becomes toggle-able
      • Proposal 2: Both the block chance and push effect are toggled together (if Proposal 1 is not feasible.)

    Dark Knight
    • Buff Achilles for x%

    :archer: Archer
    Bowmaster
    • Rush type skills in LHC exclusively?
    • Concentrate/Focus changes?
    • Phoenix

    Marksman

    :thief: Thief
    Night Lord
    • Ninja storm - Is it possible to work in LHC?

    Shadower
    • Deactivate Dark Sight using the skill again. For example, attacking with Dark Sight -> Assassinate macro can be interrupted causing
    • the player to be stuck in Dark Sight, and having to use assassinate or regular attack to cancel. If you get stuck in dark sight, does activating a macro again take you out of dark sight?
    • There is an apparent ping dependence for the main attack sequence, can this be eliminated?
      • Dark Sight -> Boomerang Step -> Assassinate. Claimed to be much higher DPS and claimed to require low ping.
      • Dark Sight -> Assassinate -> Boomerang Step. Claimed to be lower DPS.
    • Assassinate damage bug: 3rd person point of view shows critical hits with sharp eyes, while 1st person does not.
    • Why is Assassinate immune to damage reflect?

    :magician: Magician
    Bishop
    Fire/Poison
    Ice/Lightning

    :pirate: Pirate
    Buccaneer
    Corsair

    ~manon Content
    Feedback concerning elements of the game other than directly changing the behavior of a class' skills goes here.
    • Change Royal Guard to require less accuracy. Link
    • Pet equip for accuracy scrolls. Link
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2022
  2. Elie
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    Warrior stuff
    Paladin:
    To properly Balance 2H BW, increase the weapon attack of them all by roughly 10-20 attack, depending on the level. This keeps those slow-ass animations but occasionally hits HARD AF. Just increasing the speed of them is not really fun at all. The identity of slow 2h BW should be preserved, and a simple fix to make them relevant is a weapon attack buff. If the damage cap was removed, some silly high numbers with 2h BW would be awesome, but still, be balanced with swords.
    Hero: Armor crash only debuffs a boss/mob's defensive buffs (physical/magic defense up, etc). Make Rage +20 attack, and stack with attack pots. I'm NOT a fan of Enrage working as STR, Heros don't need an attack buff. They need a purpose.
    Dark Knight: Revert Dragon Knight's Power Crash to only canceling an enemy's offensive buffs. (Attack up, Magic att up, Avoid up).

    This makes it so each Warrior has its own purpose.

    An example of this proper use of class debuffs if this were implemented is Horntail. Horntail wings have defense up and attack up. When the wings attack up, it also lowers HT's defense, making all people in the party hit harder by about 5-10%, but raises the attack of HT. So for most efficient HT runs, you want the attack up buff from wings on as long as possible, at the sacrifice of getting hit harder. You have the option of a DrK debuffing the attack up or leaving it on. And we all hate the defense up on HT, so then heroes can have a purpose to bring into HT. During an HT run, a Bishop just dispels everything on the body. That kinda makes the run slower if they're debuffing the attack up. The warriors should have these roles, not the bishop.

    Mage adjustments
    Bishop:
    Nerf Dispel to only work on Party members. Allowing Dispell to work on mobs/bosses completely negates the Warrior's Cancels/Crashes. Bishop is OP enough. Bishops have a role to support party members, i feel that it is completely out of character for dispel to ALSO work on bosses/mobs.
    I/L: Buff chain lightning to properly bounce to other targets, even at GREAT distances.
    F/P: Buff Element Composition to make a monster/boss weak to Poison for a period of time so Paralyze will actually do some decent damage if a mob is Poisoned. Needs to be recast after x amount of time.
    Fix I/L and F/P Demon's skills. They are currently making mobs both weak to ice and fire no matter which one you use, might be fixed, but it still did this last I checked. After that is repaired, make Demon work on Bosses. This gives Mages some bossing/mobbing synergy with Paladins, Corsairs, and their mage counterpart. This is not a direct buff to mages in my opinion. It's just making them slightly relevant in other content outside of leech/farming. This would only slightly buff mage party synergy in certain situations (zak arms, HT parts, CWKpq, etc) giving elemental weakness to situations where it was either not present or lackluster.

    Corsair
    QoL changes for smoothness of the class.
    There is some lag when trying to use a skill (e.g. cannon, torpedo, etc.) immediately mounting onto Battleship after using a skill such as Homing Beacon or Octopus. To avoid the lag you have to input skills slowly or get caught just sitting in the ship doing nothing for 2 seconds. This feels like I'm being punished for pressing a series of skills quickly, and for a class that is supposed to reward skill makes no sense.
    Reduce the animation time of Aerial Strike by about 50%. it's too slow/weak to be relevant in many situations, this would make it more useful in rotation with rapid-fire/octopus when Ship is broken.
    Increase the number of tameable monsters with Hypnotize from 1 to 5. This can play into some unique situations where hypnotizing some mobs around a boss or while farming/grinding would help efficiency or just be really cool to see. Turning 5 Dark Wyverns into my Pokemon during an HT run sounds so fun.
    Decrease the cooldown of Recoil Shot by 33%. I have dabbled in some other servers that have a reduced cd on recoil shot and it does not feel overpowered at all. From what I saw it brought others to the class with a slightly better feel of mobility.
    Rework some of the Master Level requirements of the 3rd job Outlaw skills to 4th job skills.
    splitters.PNG THIS IS PAIN. Using ice/fire splitters in the 4th job is still relevant from elemental boost. I really should be able to max Ice splitter, but you can't due to the requirements for Aerial Strike, Homing Beacon, and Wrath of Octopi.

    Shadower
    Reduce the Assaulter animation time by 50%, and increase the draw distance.
    Assaulter is not actually faster for movement and only is VERY SITUATIONAL a help in mobility. This should be adjusted to make a ninja-type class actually feel more like a ninja.
    Assassinate is supposed to negate damage reflect! Please don't touch this. This was an intended mechanic for shadowers since classic MS. I know shadowers are kinda OP in Royals right now, but I would start with other balance ideas/reverts if toning shadowers down is still in discussion.

    Content
    Delay Damage Reflect from the beginning until AFTER the boss' animation of casting it.
    Damage reflection is such a major issue in this server due to how it happens. I love the mechanic itself, it makes you need to pay attention. But it's often completely unavoidable due to it beginning when the animation starts instead of after it is cast by the boss (Panda, Dunasv2). This also can be done with many other boss abilities and attacks that are meant to be avoided. (zombify, HT dispel, etc). Just overall provide reactionary gameplay instead of braindead gameplay.
    Boss Hard Mode: A feature allowing characters to challenge boss expeditions that are more difficult but with higher yield in reward. Rules or changes can be: No pets allowed, only one client per entry, timer restricted, additional boss skills or attacks, increase in the summons and/or summons difficulty, pot cooldown, weapon/magic attack pot restrictions, etc.
    More PQ replayability. Buff OPQ (glove), R+JPQ (pendant), and PPQ (hat) item-specific rewards to be best in the slot for those levels or overall competitive BiS like EPQ Altair Earrings are with Elemental Pierce and LPQ glasses with Spectrum goggles. Add more drops from defeating the bosses (equips, pots, scrolls) and throw in some 100/250 NX in Bonus stage loot rooms. And dear god what is the hold up with the PQ Tokens rewards. Give us scrolls, HP gain, more cosmetics, NX items that have stats, anything. Please. It would be a dream come true to come home and PQ for hours with randoms, just like back in the old days. Currently, there's no reason to.
    Buffs only stay active if the caster is within the party. This whole party juggling mule shit is ridiculous. It's not fun, it's not nostalgic, it ruins classes, it makes things too easy, and the list goes on.
    Raid Completion EXP/Rewards. Instead of all this min-maxing with party comps and mules, trio HT run crap. Slightly reduce Boss EXP and implement a completion EXP. No matter the party size or comp, every participant gets Raid EXP. So Bishops can actually get decent exp while bossing, big parties of noobs can run and feel rewarded with running 2-3 parties, and makes it worthwhile to bring more people for completion. You will still be rewarded if you're running trio/quad boss runs for splits and exp, but it shouldn't be such a waste to run big parties. This can be done with a simple quest, could even use the New Mystic Scroll for it.


    I also want to take the time to comment on the OP proposed changes. here it is.

    :warrior: Warrior


    Hero: Emphasize the Hero's purpose over the DPS. The Hero should bring power to the party. There are already strong DPS classes that have the specific job to be DPS, and heroes should be the party buff to these persons. Some options include buff rage, make it stack, make attack pots not work in boss "hard mode", make Enrage act like Threaten but much stronger, by GREATLY reducing the mob/boss defense stat for a period of time, Panic/Coma more utility (a lot of ideas there already)

    Paladin: Uncap it. I have been saying uncap it for years, and people thought I was crazy. But power creeps sure caught up didn't it. I think Guardian is fine as is, it should be VERY low on the list of changes. Some minor pushes in LHC are a sacrifice for the gains it has in bosses such as Auf Haven.

    Dark Knight: Do we really need another DK buff? It is possible to zerk in all bosses, though it's VERY hard. DK already has so much utility, a purpose, and DPS. let's table DK for a bit.

    :archer: Archer

    Bowmaster
    • Rush-type skills in LHC exclusively? No. Too op. Power Knockback could be a solid middle ground though. Dragon's breath working on boss mobs in a party setting seems like way too strong for a range class. I'm also not a fan of people asking for DB to work close range. Just use PKB until you can DB, it's not hard at all.
    • Concentrate/Focus changes? Concentrate should give BMs reduced knockback or Stance for a short period of time with cd in between.
    • Phoenix. Buff DPS

    Marksman
    • Wide array of feedback - Improved MM Feedback Thread Increase the crit rate of Marksmen, Marksmen Boost can have an additional 10-20% crit rate, this will slightly buff strafe and other attacks. Those 4 lines of no crit are fucking sad. I think changing strafe anymore is just beating a dead horse.
    • Giving Raven Xbow the arclancer treatment -Raven's Eye Xbow Adjustment. YES. DO IT.
    • Rush type skills in LHC exclusively? Again, no. just power knockback, maybe.
    • Focus changes. no.
    • Frostprey. Buff DPS

    :thief: Thief

    Night Lord
    • Ninja storm - Is it possible to work in LHC? Sure, why not. I'm still not letting them in my LHC party just out of principle.

    Shadower

    Fixing the DS>Nate>Bstep combo ping issue will be awesome. But good god probably a nightmare to do.




      • Deactivate Dark Sight using the skill again. For example, attacking with Dark Sight -> Assassinate macro can be interrupted causing
      • the player to be stuck in Dark Sight, and having to use assassinate or regular attack to cancel. If you get stuck in dark sight, does activating a macro again take you out of dark sight?
      • There is an apparent ping dependence for the main attack sequence, can this be eliminated?
        • Dark Sight -> Boomerang Step -> Assassinate. Claimed to be much higher DPS and claimed to require low ping.
        • Dark Sight -> Assassinate -> Boomerang Step. Claimed to be lower DPS.

    • Assassinate damage bug: 3rd person point of view shows critical hits with sharp eyes, while 1st person does not. Ok but not really a balance issue, just visuals...
    • Why is Assassinate immune to damage reflect? Leave Assassinate alone, you monsters. Seriously, it's supposed to work through DR.

    :pirate: Pirate

    Buccaneer
    • Allow mount use during transformation. Bucc Mount in Transformation Yes. I want to see SSYJ Goku on a fucking black cloud mount deer god, please.
    • Should barrage be allowed to exceed the current 199,999 damage cap. It's only fair since paladins should too, but not really important since bucc is already so op.
    Corsair
    • Separating Double Shot and Burst Fire - Corsair - Change Burst Fire from passive to active. YES. and fix all the other 3rd job skill requirements and SP amounts too. it's ridiculous.
    • Sair HP Battleship Breaks - Some discussion on adjusting battleship, e.g. pertaining to 1/1 attacks. NO. Get good. And the only people I see complain about this are people who HP wash too much. GFY, you did that to yourself. You can do all the content in the game with only 12k hp you maniac. Learn to dismount, but also please fix the weird stun/lags going on with Corsairs in order for us to mount/dismount quicker.

    ~manon Content

    Feedback concerning elements of the game other than directly changing the behavior of a class' skills goes here.
    • Change Royal Guard to require less accuracy. Link no. It's fine. accuracy gear is so cheap and easy to make. Maple pops are a thing. It's just not a big issue with solutions already in place that are part of the economy.
    • Pet equip for accuracy scrolls. Link Hell yea. This would be cool.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
  5. Jooon
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    Magician's Adjustment.

    Bishop
    I disagree with @GunzGaming in regards to Dispel, Bishop is already a dead class which is already muled left and right, and suffered numerous nerfs throughout its lifespan in royals. Directly or indirectly.
    Nerfing dispel further would only result into this class as a afk genesis mule in HT. Nothing more.
    This class right now is at a good spot.
    -

    Alright, alot players have been asking to make F/P and I/L some what usable in the bossing scene.
    Personally, i'm not big of a fan about it, but here's some input if you guys would really want to go ahead with it.

    Fire Poison / Ice Lightning Mages.
    There's this amazing (Fire demon/Ice Demon) debuff that has been overlooked for the longest time, why not rework the mage around it?

    Please take a look at this video uploaded by @CreamGoddess


    Damage Increase.
    For Blizzard and Meteor, to provide Fire/Ice Demon debuff even on bosses where it makes the monster weak to that particular element.
    It should create a additional elemental weakness the moment this skill debuff lands.

    Skill damage boosted by Ice Debuff
    • Paralyze
    • Meteor
    • Fire Demon
    Skill damage boosted by Fire Debuff
    • Chain Lightning
    • Blizzard
    • Ice Demon
    Fire Demon / Ice Demon skill to have their damage multiplier buffed.**

    Fire Demon / Ice Demon to be used as a single target debuff.
    Meteor / Bliz to be a large aoe debuff.
    Both debuffs should be able to stack with each other, and not override.

    Example when both debuffs are on the boss,
    Zombie mushmum = holy + ice + fire weak
    -

    Attack Speed Rework.
    Allow Speed Infusion + Spell Booster to affect Meteor / Bliz / Chain Lightning / Paralyze / Demon **
    upload_2022-6-5_9-36-52.png
    Table taken from @Buccaneer speed infusion guide.
    Seriously, unless jackson is wrong, what's spell booster good for?
    It will also make elestaff (lvl163 versions) the BiS for archmages.
    upload_2022-6-5_19-24-0.png upload_2022-6-5_19-24-15.png

    Imagine the fast lightnings! Is it fun? might be.
    Is it broken? Lets not joke around NL will still be far superior lmao
    [​IMG]

    -


    Attack Pots.
    Onyx Apple
    to provide +220 M.Att
    upload_2022-6-5_9-40-2.png

    Swiss Cheese adjusted to provide + 100 M.Att
    upload_2022-6-5_9-54-56.png

    With a more stable client.
    This class should be quite useful not only it doesn't really DC ppl in bosses anymore.
    1. Aoe splash damage in HT
    2. KB auf efficiently
    3. CWK Bottom with ice demon/fire demon
    4. DPS/Control in Von Leon
    To sum it up, this class will be significantly stronger with their partners, but remains weak as it is alone. While not regressing towards the SE mule treatment.
    High level mage gears wouldn't be complete junks anymore.

    Or we can keep them as farming mules
    upload_2022-6-5_9-52-53.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  6. Aqwrd
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    Aqwrd Well-Known Member

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    Some people believe that BM should not be buffed, here's my argument on why they're wrong.

    Single Dps Rankings
    1. Sair : 10 mins 44 seconds (~10,7k range) @Tim -0%
    2. NL : 11 mins 38 seconds (~10,6k range) @Momo -7%
    3. Bucc : 13 mins 56 seconds (~12,9k range) @Tim -23%
    4. Shad : 14 mins 10 seconds (~12,9k range) @Momo -24%
    5. DrK : 14 mins 35 seconds (~14,4k range) @lxlx -27%
    6. Pally : 14 mins 43 seconds (~13k range) @Nessi -28%
    7. BM : 15 mins 12 seconds (~10k range) @Nessi -30%
    8. Hero : 15 mins 58 seconds (~13k range) @Nessi -33%
    9. MM : 16 mins 58 seconds (~11k range) @Nessi -37%

    As we can see above, there is a noticeable dropoff between 2nd and 3rd rank, I believe the reason for this is that the attackers with a lack of strong aoe are rewarded by a strong single target dps. I understand that both NL's and Sair's come with significant drawbacks which justifies this strong single target dps. I am not asking for BM's to be in the same ballpark with NL's or Sair's.


    Let's take a look at this thread. This thread was done to test BM's aoe damage verse their single target damage. The tester used fire arrow against 4 zak arms, 2 of which are weak to our aoe skill. The results showed that despite hitting 4 zak arms at the same time, 2 which are elemental weak, hurricane still proved to be more effective at taking down zak arms. This thread shows us that even with the new bearwolves update to make them fire weak, BM's are still bottom of the barrel in terms of damage. So BM's are 7/9 in single target damage, and very weak in multi target damage. This is further proven by the fact that it is a SIN on this server to have more than 1 BM in the same party. It has only happened a handful of times and I'm near level 200.


    I don't believe when making the archer class that Nexon intended for them to be batteries for NLs. I personally believe that BM's are unique, we have one skill which I think makes us the best class to solo content, something that a support class shouldn't be capable of. Our skill Puppet, allows us to break/bypass certain mechanics of multiple Bosses. Puppeteting can disable attacks from bosses such as Pap(as well as his shell form), Samurai, and even that one Red Dude in mushroom shrine. Puppet allows us to keep Magic Monster pinned despite his insane 75k+ knockback threshold. It also allows us to be impervious to Verga's missile attacks, and will even disable his red laser. Listing all of the things puppet lets us bypass would take too long but my point stands, it doesn't fit with the label of support.


    Currently we are 26.5% less dps than Sair's and NL's on average, I would like to see this brought down to 16.5% less dps, putting us just above Buccs in single target dps. Proponents of a BM nerf believe that since we give such a strong party buff, our low damage is deserved.

    SE DAMAGE % -- SI DAMAGE % (claymore/st)
    NL: +53% ---------------- NL: +0%
    Drk: +12.4% ------------- Drk: +14.3%
    Hero: +8.1% ---------- Hero: +14.25% (19%/9.5%)
    Pally: +3.6% ------------- Pally: +14.25% (19%/9.5%)
    Sair: +5.5% --------------- Sair: +5%
    Bucc: +5.3% (demo) ----- MM: +15%
    Shad: +2.5% -------------- Shad: +0%
    90.4% --------------------------- 62.8%
    Without NL: 37.4% -------- Without MM and DRK: 33.5%

    What I hope to show with this info is that NL's highly prop the value of SE up, without NL's, SE only increases damage by an average of 6.2%. When taking out the two biggest earners of SI (drk and mm), SI gives an average damage bonus of 6.7%. Compare SE to SI even factoring in NLs, SI is no slouch. SE is great for NL's but SI is great for the entire warrior class and more. When you factor in SI, TL, their strong single/multi-target dps, rush/snatch, stance/i-frames, ability to attack from range, I wonder why BM's are crippled for their party buff and Buccs aren't, especially considering these other things Buccs have going for them.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In 2019, the staff and I appear to have had the same belief. This is much before my time on this server but apparently they made Bowmasters 4th in single target damage. Over the years, it appears that we fell to 7th for reasons unknown to me. I urge you again to reconsider, these graphs show exactly what I was aiming for with this post. We as a class are lacking severely, put Bowmasters back in the 4th spot. It is not broken, our class is seen as a joke, we contribute very little to multiple targets, SI contributes far more to a wider range of classes than SE does. Buccs are more versatile and provide more utility, these graphs show us almost neck and neck with Buccs single target damage, this is the Royals I hope for once again. Please.

    I personally would like to see concentrate give a dex bonus, and for phoenix to have stronger damage, along with never getting bugged in a stuck state. By adding dex to concentrate along with its cooldown, it allows for another dimension to BM play, which I think would be a lot of fun.

    Edit: Some other ideas I've read are to make concentrate increase our crit rate or crit damage, which I think fits a skill named Concentrate, as well as the archer class. Another suggestion would be to give it a weaker stance which I'm against. Once again I'd like to reiterate that BM have the worst of both worlds, we can't cleave and we can't deal single target damage well. There is zero reason why BM's should be limited because of their SE if you aren't giving that same treatment to Buccs. It isn't balanced and I don't think many BM's signed up to be someones bitch as their class.

     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
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  7. fuzzything44
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    I'd have to agree (or disable all cures/other debuff cure pots in bosses to compensate lol), removing this utility from dispell makes it a worthless skill as it's entirely replaced by a 400 meso NPC buyable pot.

    Any reason why you'd switch? They're about the same price per minute to keep up, and it makes cheese a welcome sight in cwk, helping keep the dry runs somewhat less awful. I also kind of like the variety. If it's about availability, why not just request that cheese (and cauldron) is slightly more common of a drop?
     
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  8. Jooon
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    Jooon Donator

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    If archmages were to be redesigned to my suggestion above and actually becomes a competitive option to other attackers, it probably will result in a demand>supply due to cheese’s duration being 2mins.

    How many cheese does a team get in a CWK run?
    Not that much.

    This switch will allow archmages to have access to the stable supply of attack potion market for it to be a usable dps unit.
    While not dropping the prices of apples if 8%-15% moves to archmages.
    Swiss cheese will become the stoppers for archmages. Which will still have its good amount of demand for bosses such as HT preheads / Krex.

    Right now its only demand is probably for bishops to 1hit darks in HT with 1380magic after echo.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
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  9. Fairy
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    I'd like to see Meditation able to be stacked with potions. Right now the skill feels very lackluster...

    Edit: and I really like the idea of making Element Composition weaken monsters to poison damage, adding a different spell into the rotation. It's usually left at 1, this could revive the spell completely.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
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  10. Metronome
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    ninja storm and venomous stars in LHC please uwu
    that way there's a small hope that people wouldn't mind adding 1 nl into the party?
     
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  11. PollitoMixP
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    BOW,CROSS/MAN GENERAL
    A) Give more damage to birds, both phoenix and frostprey : actual damage and 60% or more
    B)That new and rechargeable arrows can be created using itcg-crafting items
    +20 att arrows using this system!
    Hunter Arrows +15
    Dragon Scale Arrows +17
    Golden Shard+20

    C) Having the puppet take 50% of the damage to yourself but no cooldown, wherever you put it, it will serve as a distraction but it will still stack damage!

    BM .
    1)Concentrate 20% more crit instead of 26 att and add that when used ,use double mana example hurricane -9 mp no concentrate / hurricane in concentrate -18 per arrow
    and keep CD, (only applicable for oneself)
    2)Rush-like abilities in LHC (Dragon Breath and Knock back
    3)All mobs can be burned with Inferno! ,similar to NL poison (default 8 sec dps time)

    MM.
    1)Raven Xbow's focus changes similar to bow arclancer
    2)Rush-like abilities in LHC (Dragon Breath and Knock back)
    3)All mobs freeze with Blizzard ! similar to NL poison (default 8 sec dps time)
    Apply the freeze attribute, as the skill says
    4) Check the Snipe CD, so that it runs correctly > comment source:https://mapleroyals.com/forum/threa...as-listed-in-description.205765/#post-1221117

    SHADOWER SUGGESTION !

    This topic has never been talked about, but what if we bring a forgotten skill from 2nd job, (Savage Blow) I know it sounds crazy to think, if this skill is special, it is good at lvl 30 to 69 80% damage per x6 of dagga hits, what would happen if you could add an enhancer of such ability in 4th job, I mean 80% basic + the improvement of 40/50% for the same 6 hits, it would certainly bring some changes to the way of playing it , and thus not only hit it alone but also give variety to the class , but at least it would be a reusable and super cool ability , by the way it is not necessary to change in skils , simply make Taunt mix With this buff, leave the skill as it is, take it to 30, only with the bonus damage from this skill!

    Note:
    Perhaps it cannot be implemented immediately, but at least 50% of my proposal I hope will help many to balance the market and the DPS and thus make the class important and valuable, not only it is mule
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
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  12. MaiAh
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    :magician: Magician
    Sadly i dont think there is anything left at this pont that can put mages alive as mains, no space for mages other then mules ~f4 they are expoilted for mass naked mule farming or hs/hsh/dsp or res mule and grounded hard with nerfs at events that gives hard time for the left few players trying to have mage as main and invest in gear/lvl to enjoy like other

    Maybe buffing single target skill such as angel ray will put them back in the game again for a moment but buffing their dmg on ultis ( meteor/blizz & gene) that are allready being heavy exploited will just put mages in even worse then being naked mage mule farmers or mule for boss


    :pirate: Pirate
    Buccaneer: this job i think is one of the best boss fits with great control and support, decent mobing and relativly balanced compared to other

    Corsair :
    Corsair masterace ! In my opinion they are the best job single client player can get with feel like actualy playing and learning game mechanics and that in same time improve your dps the better you get with game mechanics.
    There is few minor QA changes that can be made even though they are not much needed and can be avoid/just fine without :
    Air strike while on battleship
    Air strike while jump/move position
    stance or higher stance if battleship is not on cd
    Octopi range hit activation/work both vertical and horizontal increased
    Pets to follow char speed not ship speed (when pet quest is done )
    Dash to be like buff with 5-10sec duration
    Elemental boost lvl30 to add + 2-5sec (on top of the base +2 sec ) on ice freeze /more dmg on ice and flame throw
    Further dismount and att after mount delay reduced


    ~manon Content

    Regular social and open for all events organsised or once a week/month with run times in prime hours for 2-3 time zones (example GM event with proper time notice ingame 30min to 1h atleast for those who dont mule to have time to finish their boss/task and join event with other players)
    boss raids with 2+ party and job variety
    Party quests reborn !

    PS:i will edit/add few more things with time
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
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  13. TheHound
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    TheHound Well-Known Member

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    Make brandish do 20%-40% more damage when attacking a single unit
    Or
    increase advanced combo attack by +20%
     
  14. CreamGoddess
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    I'm being flooding these things on forum shouthbox, in game and some threads.

    Marksman
    • Increase number of arrows shots from 4 to 5 on Strafe lv30 or as 4th job additional skill.
    Paladin
    • I don't know if the developers are trying fix it, but I really miss the Threaten skill change, I noticed an insane damage reduction cause of this skill during BF, Dunas and Horntail, but it brought a bizarre bug that turn boss touch damage into magic damage (I had a video about this bug but it's gone :donke:). Update 73
    Corsair
    Night Lord
    • [​IMG]
      Increase both attack boost to 30 since balanced fury and magic throwing knife are better.
    Hero
    • #BuffHero, idk how, but buff :PBLove:
     
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  15. Aestel
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    For bishops, mainly in horntail

    If the motive of this thread is to encourage party play
    Suggestion
    - Nerf bishop dispel (so that it doesn't remove defence up from bosses/mobs/what have you)

    Reasons
    - Theoretically (who am I kidding lmao), this discourages solo plays for HT as it requires an additional client (bringing a Hero/DK) to remove defence up for a faster run. Or alternatively, solo players can choose to run w/o a warrior mule for a slower run.
    - Majority of the new players joining the server will start with a bishop. Many of the public runs are not blessed with the privilege of running with a paladin/crash mule and rushing wings. Requiring a bishop to dispel while wings are up increases mortality. This may discourage new unwashed bishops to join HT.
    - Even with a seduce mule, there are runs where the SE just randomly kisses horntail head. Having resurrection around is crucial. Without a seduce mule, healing for the seduce is pretty much essential.
    - Holy symbol is almost necessary unless your entire party is 200. Holy shield is nice to have.
    - Therefore, I do not think that nerfing dispel will drastically reduce the demand of bishops in HT.

    If the motive of this thread is to Discourage party play
    Suggestion
    - Maintain the status quo for dispel.
    - Allow bishops to have their MP intact by 1/1 when infinity is active so that well-washed bishops can double as bishop and sed.

    Reason
    - Better quality of life if there are fewer clients to juggle/pre-boss preparations.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
  16. Herres
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    For Heroes:
    My suggestion is to change the Enrage skill to tackle the Damage Reflect mechanism and it's based on 3 points:
    1. At the current state of the game heroes simply don't have a real purpose when it comes to actual engagement with the late game boss mechanics.
    2. There is currently one boss mechanic which cannot be negated or answered using a skill: Damage Reflect.
    3. Enrage is a dead skill that has no real purpose at its current state.

    My suggestion is to make Enrage an active party buff (just like Paladin's new Total Crash skill) which enables the party members to attack through boss's Damage Reflect without getting hit back. This will make Heroes have a real purpose in certain boss fights. Moreover since the skill requires the user to have a full 10 combo in order to cast it, simply bringing a Hero mule is not going to be enough as it has to be active and deal actual damage to the boss (since "miss" doesn't count for the combo counter).
    I think this is a good alternative to the suggestion of making Enrage add stackable attack to the user because a. no one likes power creeping and b. from what I understand from the devs' comments it's impossible to implement anyway).
     
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  17. Hwaiting
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    I like this idea. DR on Dunas V1 is kinda meme though because I can attack through it on my Hero anyway; it has enough HP to survive. Could be interesting on Pink Bean (SoonTM).
     
  18. Herres
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    Some other classes could really benefit from that, for example for BMs and MMs DR is really their Achilles' heel at Dunas v1 fight (tank classes naturally can withstand DR most of the time).
     
  19. Cooler
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    ill try to keep this simple, and focus on skills brought up in the op, and go from there.

    warrior.gif warriors
    [enrage]
    enrage should not stack with potions. its lazy and op. enrage shouldn't crash DR either, even though ive suggested it before, and as @Herres just brought up.

    enrage should boost STR by 30 at max, and just ignore/bypass DR, meaning heros can keep attacking if they're in enrage. if STR stacking, even if the STR was flat and didn't factor with MW, which ive mentioned before that it shouldn't, is not possible, then i think enrage should just ignore all w. def. on a mob/boss, as well as their def up buffs. that alone would be a worthy att boost and still worth using.

    but like rage (lowers acc and w.def), i think enrage should come with its drawbacks and be dispellable as well, or it will be a new mandatory meta state to be in at all times

    its perks could be something like:
    • boosts STR by a flat 30, after MW
    • ignores/bypasses DR. (does not "crash" it. this is still muleable/exploitable)
    • ignores being stunned during enrage
    • ignores being weakened during
    • ignores being slowed
    • ignores mobs def up skills
    • ignores all mobs w. def
    • increases [Rush] A to B speed when cast, rushes slightly faster during enrage
    • decreases [Monster Magnet] charge time and increases pull speed during enrage
    • decreases KB distance. if you are kb, the normal distance you normally get knocked back isn't as far
    • can KB mobs without hitting their KB threshold at a chance, consumes 1 orb
    • or perhaps during enrage, the 1v1 damage of brandish is slightly increased
    cons could be:
    • halves your combo orb accrual speed during enrage
    • no passive healing
    • negates effects of: acchiles, PG, guardian
    • lowers ACC 30
    • lowers potion healing effects by a %, opposite of alchemist
    • can be dispelled
    a handful of suggestions for enrage (the rest will be much shorter) but mainly i propose:
    • enrage ignores all w.def
    • enrage boosts STR (not att)
    • enrage bypasses DR (hero specific utility, not a party crash)
    • perhaps a 1v1 increase in damage to brandish during enrage

    however, if Damage Reflect shatter is considered:

    • would require max ACA (for the 10 orbs)
    • lvl 15/21 or higher enrage to affect DR
    • require the accuracy to hit the boss
    • be the same level or above the boss to crash/shatter dr
    • and just casting enrage near a boss shouldn't shatter DR.
    • crash DR by casting [Shout] (any level) during enrage, and consumes a magic crystal
    these requirements easily curb the exploitability/promote active playing/appropriate level usage

    [guardian] - i agree with the push toggle suggestion

    [threaten] - should only work on monsters/bosses your level or lower, and work on bosses at half rates (halved % to hit, and halved effects vs bosses). threaten also should require the accuracy to hit the monster.
    both suggestions are to curb low level crash mules that can also just spam threaten for -% w.def, or wks/pallies too low of a level or acc to affect major bosses before they should

    [AC/PC/TC] all crash skills, armor/power/total require a magic crystal. these are very muled/exploited skills.
    - i think power crash should give a short -w.att effect as well, -15~25 wa, perhaps randomized, etc, 10~15 seconds or so, to act as a short defanging effect against touch damage. the magic crystal and short effect makes it difficult to spam/mule.
    as well as being able to crash attack up, and attack up only

    [zerk] - since we live in the yeepog dev era, ill necro an old zerk request: zerk % scaling, instead of the hard 50% hp buff, and different colored att animations for the different stages of zerk, so you can just check your fury color instead of HP/math

    [dragon's blood] - similar to rage/enrage/concentrate, instead of boosting att, db will ignore some w.def, amount tbd. perhaps up to -40
    again this removes the att buff, allows for att potion stacking, still keeps the skill as a net positive effect if maxed

    [hexes] - all require/consume summoning rocks

    [coma/panic] -
    bringing the finishers back around into 4th could bring some fun optional utility and tech for heros. unless you let the finishers break damage cap, which I don't recommend, this is probably the best way to keep them fresh and useful
    panic:
    • can blind/dark mobs and bosses
    • boss requirement: 10 orbs consumes 5 (or all 10), must be same level or above boss flagged mob to affect boss, requires accuracy to land the hit and the darkness effect
    • blinds for them for 15-25 seconds (or perhaps a randomized time between 15-30s), for -20% accuracy
    • can blind normal mobs
    coma:
    • coma can also temporarily slow boss flagged mobs
    • boss req: 10 orbs, consumes 5 (or all 10), must be same level or above to affect boss, requires accuracy to land the hit and the slow effect
    • slows boss for -X speed, for 15-30s, randomized?
    • coma still stuns normal mobs
    -effects can't stack with hamstring/blind.
    these give hero's with max ACA a continued use for their finishers while bossing, to help their parties with some helpful, selfless, temporary deubuffs, at the cost of a bit of dpm. adds some desperately needed, and fitting color and utility/tech to heros, as well as the proposed enrage buffs

    [coma/panic GFX swap]
    call me wild, but i believe the gfx for these two skills were accidentally swapped at the last second, due to the rushed nature of 3rd job (panic not afflicting darkness as it was supposed to, etc) and since panic affects a monsters sight, panic should have coma's eye gfx, while coma should have panic's green magic blast effect that stuns mobs (and possibly slows bosses).

    [2HBW] - simplest, cleanest solution for 2HBWs:
    • 2HBW can ignore up to all of a mobs/bosses w.def
    • 2HBW can break damage cap limit
    • 2HBW can KB mobs/bosses without hitting kb threshold, like arans "smart kb" skill
    • 2HBW can ignore damage reflect ("breaks through" the magic effect)?
    this keeps them heavy and slow still, but carry perks to make up for their lagging, bottom tier speed. being able to ignore w.def, between 1 and 100% is a great damage buff without increasing w.att, but this ignore w.def/m.def effect, as suggested in many other skill suggestions, isnt purely universal and still benefits better geared chars, so it will increase the price of 2hbw scrolls.

    on breaking the damage cap, it's my personal hope the damage cap is simply raised (to some staff determined value) instead of being able to break cap entirely.
    however, i think 2HBW should be able to break cap limit no matter what, this gives them a unique ability and helps 2hbw users bridge the lagging damage gap while staying slow.

    'smart kb' gives the big, slow maces a unique helpful advantage for the rare users that main it. something like 10-20% of the required kb. not like, 90%, which was what arans op skill granted

    2HBW being able to ignore DR gives users a decent dpm window boost "speeding" them up

    other possibilities:
    • 2HBW have a low natural crit chance, like 5% to deal 105% crit damage
    • max HH has a chance% to 1hko normal mobs if wielding a 2HBW. something like 10-30% chance. "speeds" 2HBW up some, without actually, and fits. must have accuracy to hit the mobs, and be the same level or above mobs to work.
    • if eq with a 2HBW, blast has a slight ratio increase to swing
    • 2HBW can ignore damage reflect ("breaks through" the magic effect)?
    • 2HBW have a low natural chance to bypass weapon cancel
    -a low crit chance with a small crit boost would help, but still keep their damage in check while still giving it a buff, and keep them slow
    -max HH having a chance to 1hko normal mobs gives 2H users a nice training boost and perk
    -slight swing ratio increase from blast would obviously help if tested
    - 2HBW having say a 10% chance to bypass WC, and ignore DR, give them a speed boost while staying slow

    split 1H and 2H BW Mastery into two separate skills in 2nd job?
    this would allow 2H to have a higher mastery rate and perk, without also buffing the fast 1H crushed skull+shield users
    or split the mastery values of 2H and 1H independently in the same skill

    [shield mastery] - a very lacking skill, and almost impossible to invest in due to SP demand for WKs.
    • higher weapon and magic defense boost when eq with a shield
    • a natural avoid boost as well, 25-40, when eq with a shield
    • small increase to power guard reflect damage if eq with a shield?

    [polearms] - balance PA's crusher/fury rates/ratios in some way that make PA not completely useless if a DRK chooses to main PA.

    [sacrifice] - can't KO you if you deal a critical hit with sac. sac ignores all w.def, def buffs, and can ignore w. cancel so drks can use sac during cancels to maintain zerk. increased MP cost

    small, important QOL. should be more of the thinking mans dragon roar as far as zerk maintenance goes

    magician.gif magicians
    [dispel] - agree that it shouldn't dispel monster def up, just like it doesn't dispel good buffs on players.
    -also think that dispel should cost more MP to cast, and perhaps a very short CD to recast.
    -brought up later, but ACP should cost more mesos from all NPCs

    gives armor crash more value.
    dispel costing more MP gives dispel more deliberate, necessary use and less likely to just spam, especially if ACPs cost more, and dispel has a slight CD. more party communication



    [meditation] meditation should increase INT 20, or ignore some m.def, but slowly drains MP while active, and increases the cost of spells while active.

    like rage, enrage, dragon's blood, and concentration, meditation is an obsolete skill due to potions. med ignoring some magic defense works together with potions instead of making the skill or the magic att potions both redundant.
    meditation increasing the cost of spells and slowly draining mp while active makes the ignore m.def effect worthy, and makes sense during an active state of meditation that allows users to deal more damage by ignoring some m.def, while still letting it stack with potions.
    i think this is a very reasonable, pragmatic change for this skill, and all five of the aforementioned skills should all be reoriented in this direction, its the simplest, and best of both worlds for the meta and players.


    [element comp] comp should do two lines, one for each element, at a balanced att %
    also consider:
    fire/poison comp can do poison and fire dot simultaneously if the mob/boss is weak to them
    ice/lightning can freeze, or stun mobs (that cant be frozen), and can do ice and lightning dot if a mob/boss is weak to either
    this is the only 1v1 mages have for awhile, and should be buffed a bit

    [bishop] - able to summon both dragons simultaneously for extra damage, both require summoning rocks
    -increase MP cost of dispel, and perhaps a few seconds CD
    -holy shield requires a magic crystal
    -res requires a magic crystal and summoning rock

    -extra passive damage from both dragons
    -increasing dispels MP cost goes in hand with the increased ACP costs I propose. ACP is touched on in the content section. this is to hope players rely on priest/bs support more than ACP, and increasing the mp cost of such a valuable, spammable skill is healthy. i even consider giving it a small recast CD to make boss/monster statuses so pointless if a priest/bs is in the party, as well as a possible ACP cd
    -holy shield consuming a MC, because it is such a powerful party spell, and often one that can used just from mule/multiclient party members. increasing the cost slightly prioritizes preparedness and curbs mules a bit
    -rez requiring both magic crystal and summoning rock. i think this is at the least very fitting and healthy for such a common pocketed mule skill, and among the most powerful and unique skills in the game, should cost a bit more in mp and preparedness to use beyond its CD


    [demons] - instead of making demons current effect of making mobs (or the proposed boss suggestion, which is extremely exploitable) weaker to respective elements, they should lower mob/boss magic defense temporarily, or by a randomizing ignore m.def amount for each magic attack after casting demon during the effect. amounts tbd.
    the original intended synergy of their summon/demon/para/cl is completely obsolete now and swept far away in the ulti spam meta, sadly.
    this effect is much simpler and more pragmatic, and helps attacking mages.
    but if demons are considered to do the original intended effect on bosses suggestion as ive floated forever ago, and as @GunzGaming suggested above, the window for the element boost should be very short on bosses, like 10 seconds, as ive also suggested, and should require a magic crystal to effect a boss, and only effect them if the casting mage has enough accuracy, and if the caster is the same level as the boss or above, to squash mule abuse, to promote active play via attention/communication/recasting. however, paladins and sairs already sit comfortably in the bossing meta, and buffing them with this angle would still mostly benefit them, and not the mages nearly as much, so i lean more on giving demons the ignore X magic defense

    I also think a good additional demon effect is boosting the damage summons deal to demon affected mobs/bosses, but not on an elemental level. this is also a much more simplified fix to the original concept of demons/summons

    [new, alternative demon usage, or new skill] ive mentioned this idea in my bbb megathread, but demon, (or perhaps a new 10 SP skill), could be a vehicle to cast all status spells at once (since demon's originally intended usage is now obsolete), depending if you have points in them, and at their current level (slow/seal/poison/etc)
    this saves lots of keys, and is a great pay off for all your investments in those skills. it could:
    • combine your current level of slow
    • current level of seal
    • poison mist/brace etc
    • freeze/stun effect for i/l mages level of spear/ice strike/etc
    • m. def lowering effect
    • increased summon damage
    • increased chance to proc mp eater (doesn't affect ultimates)
    • chance for normal demon-effected mobs to drop magic crystals/summoning rocks even if they don't normally, as a proxy way for mages to additionally/optionally farm these items, since they will have more use/value due to more skills now requiring them
    a great cypher skill of your other skills you have invested in, to be able to cast all your status effects into one powerful spell instead, and can give F/P & I/L an optional MC/SR farming ability. great for I/L & F/P, since priest's doom spell is so debilitating. speaking of:

    [doom] - already consumes a magic crystal to cast. this is good, and OG 3rd job maple. love it.
    also giving doom a chance for doomed-mobs to drop mc/sr at a chance (say 9,10%), even if they don't drop them, would also allow bishops a vehicle to farm MC/SR optionally if they choose

    [magic reflect] - reflects more damage back at higher levels, for the invested high level attacking mages. requires a magic crystal to cast
    a very overlooked skill due to mages rarely making appearances in major bosses. would passively boost their dpm, and increasing reflected damage at higher levels promotes maxing, and would increase reflect's SB prices

    [big bang] - big bang should also be considered to have a chance% to push mobs, including LHC, at higher levels of big bang (21+), so mages can shao, or help rush in LHC.
    this is a slept on skill and is the perfect vehicle for this utility, and a skill all three mages share. would also increase the SB value. works essentially like a charged-up ninja storm

    [paralyze] - can poison mobs that touch/bump other para-poisoned mobs. this helps para by being slightly more of a mobbing skill, like chain lightning is. a chance to poison boss flagged mobs only during weapon cancels would also help para compete with CL

    [all magician summons] -req/consume 1 summoning rock. baby dragon, bahamut, ifrit, elquines

    thief.gif thieves
    [dark sight] - suggestions lifted from here
    • Possible dark sight dispel when struck by 1/1
    • Ability to cancel DS by four possible keys, reg attack, assassinate, pressing ds again while in ds, or Hero's Will
    • Ability to leave DS when stun or sed by being able to either press reg attack, nate, or ds again, but remain stunned/seduced
    • Stun/seduce automatically dispels DS
    • bosses can dispel DS with their actual mass dispel skill (this could also be beneficial if stunned/sed then instantly dispelled
    • can use HW in DS, or, HW dispels DS like nate
    • can use chakra in DS? most don't know, but chakra comes at the risk of taking more damage if struck while casting. this brings the same risks of ds/nate/bossing, plus extra damage, but gives the "potions in ds pls" crowd something that's actually reasonable, but unlikely.
    • or, can use chakra from DS, and pops you out like nate. would also be another key to escape DS, five total (six if steal is considered. reg att, ds, steal, chakra nate, HW)
    any of these would be excellent QOL solutions to the risky DS/nate combo. keep the DS requirement!

    [ninja storm/spider web] - ninja storm has a % chance to kb/push mobs at LHC, and only at level 21+. something like 20% at max. similarly, web has a chance to trap a LHC mob temporarily, but only at max level, and lower rates.
    this and pkb/db below is proposed as per the OP asking for ranged "rush" skills. i think giving them only a chance to push is the way to go for ranged chars in LHC if its considered at all

    [venom] - can be toggled on/off.
    i love venom, but a toggle would be great qol, especially for item/card hunting with steal/taunt

    [assassinate]
    • assaulter can cancel nate nate/animation at any time. this is helpful when getting locked in a nate animation and falling in HT, can assaulter to a ledge, or to stop the macro and reposition in certain situations
    • 4th hit always 100% crits at max. the 4th hit is never used, it should be a bit more worth the time to use it, than never using it in favor of macros
    • 4th hit can only proc if you are holding left or right, not idly facing left or right. This will also fix the bug that forces your fourth hit and sends you forward accidentally, likely into dangerous touch damage
    • 4th hit of nate can break damage cap. this would promote 4th hit use against certain bosses, be a bit riskier (since it almost always sends you into touch damage), but worth the effort
    • nate ignoring DR is fine, it is a surprise attack, and risk inherent attack for the user already
    small QOL tweaks to streamline the risky assassinate, and promote/qol its rarely seen final death stroke


    [shield mastery] - of the many unfortunately useless skills, this is at the top of the list. and this is also the farthest possible needed change, but its all about the fun in the end, which is the most important part of this game. i have suggested changing the skill to
    [Steal Mastery] - my thread on steal mastery is a mess so I'm not linking it, but heres a simple look

    • requires max steal
    • increases steal chance by 15%
    • increases value of stolen mesos
    • chance you can steal use/quest/etc items in small bundles of 1-3
    • can use steal from darksight, like assassinate for increased steal rates pops you out of ds, and increased chance to steal items instead of mesos, costs more MP
    • increased chance to steal items instead of mesos from monsters who aren't aggro'd (remember disorder?)
    • increased chance to steal items instead of mesos from monsters your level or below
    • increases pickpocket rates and value if PP is active

    [+alternative [Shield Mastery] skill] -
    instead of Steal Mastery above, how about about:
    [Advanced Dark Sight], or Sneak Mastery, etc.
    • requires max DS
    • increases avoid while in DS only, up to additional+X at max
    • allows passive healing if [Endure] has any points invested, while in DS
    • allows you to use steal once from DS, like assassinate, and pops you out of DS, for increased steal rates
    • can cast chakra from darksight, but pops you out of ds
    • increases MP cost of DS, and perhaps costs as much HP
    both infinitely better than shield mastery. it's a completely dead skill with the khanjars--unless a decent amount of w/m. def is added to the khanjars--which i would love, and be a much simpler solution to help shield mastery from being unfortunately, utterly useless

    [meso guard] - blocks 40% of all damage, lowered from 50%, costs more mesos. shads dont need to be this tanky. or alternatively, require MG to consume a magic crystal to cast

    [shifter] - at max, shifter requires a small amt of mp to proc (-5). if at zero mp, shifter rates are halved but have no mp cost. from this thread

    the extremely tanky shads, and easy to play NL are somewhat curbed with these last two suggestions. shads never need to wash (or do the hp quest) and rarely worry about dying unless dispelled, and are now very powerful with nate buff and the new smokescreen buff. taking mg down to 40% and a small mp cost to shifter are healthy debuffs IMO. full disclosure, *i am a shad main*, and still think these are very healthy measures. shads shouldn't be tankier than warriors

    [new non-rechargeable stars] - a few new sets of NPC available non-rechargeable, non-tradeable stars with high attack. this would be a great alternative to dropping large amounts on high end sets of rechargeable stars by offering a one time use non-rechargeable set you can buy if you wish instead. keeps current star market intact (and possibly increasing current star values) while giving players between purchases some flexibility, and creates a good meso sink.
    -attack values TBD
    -set quantity not affected by claw mastery
    -dissapear from use inventory at 0
    -perhaps sold from Mo after finishing CWK quests, or other common major boss prerequisite quests
    -reskinned and renamed or unused stars. ex: "fugitive ilbis", "glass hornets", "jagged steelies", "phantom tags"

    archer.gif archers
    [birds] - at 21+, birds can do neutral damage instead if a mob is resistant/immune to their element. this gives folks who fully invest in their summon extra damage over time without an attack/speed boost
    -able to summon both birds at the same time? both summons should cost summoning rocks
    -give phoenix' fire DOT effect vs mobs and boss flagged mobs at level 21+
    these suggestions add passive DOT. neutral damage towards resistant mobs/bosses at higher summon levels help DOT vs resistant mobs/bosses. summoning both birds together gives additional increased DOT and spawn coverage
    Phoenix dot gives bms a nice mobbing boost, and should increase the price of Phoenix 30 greatly


    [PKB/DB] - either pkb or dragon's breath can push at a % chance on LHC mobs. for DB, level 21+ you can start to have a chance to push. like ninja storm suggestions, this rewards those who invest in the skill, and gives the DB30 book value. something like 20% chance to push LHC mobs at max.
    -IMO, DB should cost like 10 arrows, and have a slight delay

    [focus] - while i think blind has done a great job for MM and parties, my suggestion to focus is, if maxed, just boost the avoid like 15-20, or if maxed, have it passively raise in avoid depending on your level, increases MP cost as well

    [bow expert/marksmanship] - increases eye of amazon distance to 130. possible chance to ignore/be immune to darkness status by 20%, at max, starting at level 25.
    both archers are asking for various buffs to their class. a slight range increase keeps them a little safer and more comfortable in bossing situations/positioning which increases damage over time. a small darkness resistance is in line with these skills and can keep them attacking when they shrug off the status.

    [MM strafe] - strafe goes down to *3* lines with max marksmanship, slight att % increase to balance the four line average, and possibly strafe has a chance ignore w.def randomly, between 1-X (tbd)

    this suggestion gives MM:
    • better knock-back
    • higher average DOT, as opposed to 4, or more lines.
    • this would also allow strafe to be cast slightly faster over time due to slightly less cast animation.

    [Snipe] - snipe ignores monster iframes. why not lol
    - ignores DR
    -snipe has a short autotarget effect on bosses (since they're the only mobs that don't insta die from it). 8-15 seconds, perhaps randomized.
    this short autotarget window focuses strafe volleys on the boss to slightly improve dpm over time (instead of strafing summons, and keep snipe relevant longer. snipe must be recast to continue the short autotarget effect.
    small bullseye icon over affected bosses

    the short snipe autotarget promotes more attentive play, keeping snipe relevant from 120-200 via its utility than just its flat damage, as well as a higher average DOT from focused shooting. also a fitting effect for sniping.

    [concentrate] - similar to enrage. will boost DEX slightly instead of att, or better, ignores some w.def.
    • increases mp cost of all skills instead of decreasing all mp cost of skills. drains mp during concentrate. if DEX increases, can't stack with MW. can be dispelled. reduces potion healing effects (opposite of alchemist) during.
    similar to enrage, these skills need downsides, like being dispellable, acc loss, etc, or they will be new instant meta skills, meaning they will be maxed asap if they boost base stats instead of being bad att pots, and used at all times/TL'd

    [alternative concentrate suggestion] - to go a totally different, possibly more defensive route, ill combine some ideas from my bbb megathread. instead of the above att/dex/w.def ignore buffs, concentrate could give a temporary shifter effect, 10% at max, 10% stance at max, both going up to 20%, only when firing hurricane:

    • 10% shifter and stance while firing hurricane, with climbing rates up to 20%
    • the longer you're able to continuously fire hurricane during concentrate, increases your shifter/stance effects, up to 20%, if your hurricane volley is uninterrupted (via avoid/shifter effect/no damage/smoke/not pressing any other key besides holding hurricane/not manual potting)
    • uninterrupted hurricane fire also ignores some w.def,up to a limit. increases based on how long you can fire hurricane w/o being hit. this effect also slightly increases DPM. w.def ignore TBD
    • slowly increases the avoid boost of Focus to +30 at max, at peak concentration rates, if Focus is active
    • concentrate increases the mp cost of all skills during, instead of lowering cost, like vanilla (hurricane will cost more mp)
    • bm takes increased damage during concentrate (zeroes weapon and magic defense?)
    • 5% chance to ignore def buffs, and weapon cancel?
    • reduced potion effects (opposite of alchemist) during?
    • no passive healing
    • can be dispelled
    • still has cooldown
    • has great synergy with puppet
    this would be a great and dynamic buff for bm, gives great conditional defensive and offensive perks for uninterrupted, concentrated hurricane fire. the shifter effect helps itself, but is only active or effective during concentrate, and only during attacking animations/holding hurricane, not a passive perk outside of concentrate. great synergy with puppet. overall this is better than the obsolete vanilla att buff.
    the debuffs during concentrate make the attack state more risky and thrilling for the buffs it does grant. the buffs during attacks/hurricane keydown-only prevent SE mules from getting shifter/stance buffs by simply casting concentrate.

    [another alternative] - during concentrate, when firing hurricane, there is a chance% that an arrow can pierce through a target once, to strike one more target behind it, at decreased dmg
    gives some mobbing utility during concentrate

    pirate.gif pirates
    [wings] - can be used once in the air before landing, as well as normally (from the ground).
    gives wings more feather fall utility/fun

    [hypnotize] - QOL for hypnotize to ignore bullseye'd mobs. when casting hypno, if you have bullseye on a target, hypno will obviously target them, but once affected by hypno, the targeted mob no longer takes damage, making the combo redundant. this would be a really great QOL when trying to conscript other mobs with hypno to help you with your actual target, instead of negate the target by hypnotizing them

    [SI/TL] - si/tl both require and consume magic crystal, costs 100 or more hp and mp, and perhaps a full energy bar to cast each.
    bucc party power and mule ubiquity should be curbed a bit.

    manon.png content
    hero's will 5/10
    • hero's will can cure any regular normal condition (stun, weak, slow, poison, dark) for emergency situations, like stunlock in ds. as mentioned earlier, hw should be allowed in DS, and pops you out
    • Hero's Will 10 - a new SB, increasing the max level of will to 10, with new fine tuned perks for more attentive bossing, all mentioned in the link. one of the main, of many reasons to flesh this skill out into the likely changing end game meta (von leon/pb/grampa balrog) would be the proposed DR/seduce alert perk, which all players would love (passively will alert you of incoming sed/dr with a screen shake/chatlog mag, or msg on screen, or a large exclamation point localized over your head, on top of any att animations or damage displays, depending on your level of HW10.
    • perfect built-in content, easily updated, and perfect for von leon to drop, in preparation for the pink one, and for players who want to min-max their bossing skills
    this has limitless potential depending on the agreed/tested upon level 10 perks, especially for dynamic bossing content. the sed/DR alert alone would be a wonderful and engaging QOL--for those that invest! i personally think Von Leon is the perfect candidate to drop this book. all of LHC requires teamwork, and high end parties to get to and take down, and HW10 could itself make the battle slightly easier, depending on staffs direction they go with him, as well as all other existing boss content, and future.


    more skills requiring/consuming magic crystals, summoning rocks, and increased ACP cost from NPCs.
    i think some very common mule skills should cost a bit more, crashes, TL/SI, holy shield, res and maybe even SE. increasing ACP cost also helps you rely more on bishop/dispel support, instead of being able to spam them, and perhaps a short ACP cd to use another.
    • total crash/armor/power crash requiring one magic crystal (MC)
    • SI/TL both requiring one MC each (as well as full energy and hp as well as mp
    • holy shield requiring one MC
    • all summons require summoning rocks (SR), and perhaps drk's hex skills as well
    • rez requiring a MC & SR
    • creates a better market for mc/sr, increasing NPC buy cost, as well as farming desirability, and a small meso sink
    • same with ACP, small meso sink, more party play and attentiveness, as well as farming desirability. very powerful potions that make lots of annoying statuses more of a challenge to mitigate. a short ACP CD, five to 10 seconds, would also be a reasonable and challenging change
    • increasing the MP cost of dispel, and perhaps a few sec CD
    • SE costing 1 MC as a party buff (two or more players in a party) but free for the user. more communication and teamwork involved

    on randomized values
    : for some suggestions ive mentioned that perhaps instead of doing a flat effect or amount of time that there be a range it could do, and for some skills i think this is good, just like the damage range, its an effect such as ignore w.def range for mm's strafe, or a range for how long hero's coma or panic effects lasts, since they aren't archers, but still have skills that can cause statues, just not as effectively.
    i think this makes some skills like rolls, which can be more exciting in bosses, and most importantly also curb muleability by defying exact time or value expectations.
    i think more skill effects, perhaps buff durations, etc, should have more randomized range to keep players attentive, and make muling less of a science

    [on ignore w.def/m.def:]
    the main five "potion stacking" skills, rage, meditation, dragon's blood, enrage, and concentration, that ive suggested instead ignore defenses, as well as some other suggestions, like marksman's strafe, or 2HBW, are imo the perfect route to buff these skills without potion stacking, stat stacking, or damage increases. they are also benefits that still depend on being well geared. they will boost the prices of 2HBW, and xbow scrolls, especially if marksmanship causes strafe to go down to three arrows, as ive laid out is a much better overall benefit: slightly faster cast for more dpm, better kb, and better averaged dpm


    on rage, meditation, dragon's blood, enrage, concentrate:
    these five skills are in obsolescence due to the att potion meta. all of my suggestions, mainly being the ignore def/ignore x defense proposals are imo the simplest fix. they're still however in limbo, so in some cases, new niche utility to them have been suggested to consider, for the sake of helping the respective classes in areas that they don't cover, for additional, fitting class utility.
    but if anything, the ignore w/m def suggestions are the simplest and most effective. rage and dragons blood have built in drawbacks, which are good, since these skills would soon be meta mandatory and desired to be in these states or have these buffs active at all times. therefore i also think them being able to be dispelled is also a healthy measure.

    meso sink:
    -increased MP for some skills like dispel, shifter, meditation, concentrate, create small but cumulative meso sinks through potions.
    -increasing the cost of ACP, which are extremely cheap and easy to carry (id even consider lowering the max ACP for one slot), would also create an excellent sink.
    -more skills requiring magic crystals/summoning rocks, and increasing the cost of them create a great new sink, as well as farming market for them
    -new SB and weapon values. 2HBW, xbow scrolls will go up. SB such as enrage, concentrate, magic reflect, demons, holy shield, guardian, phoenix, dragon's breath, big bang, ninja storm, will all see immediate and staying market increases due to renewed demand. HW10 will also create a great new and sustainable market sink.
    -non-rechargeable, one time use star sets will also create a nice sink for emergency situations, folks between purchases or with small/incomplete bossing sets still


    Bosshunter Gear and stimulators
    all suggestions from this thread regarding the already existing BH gear for HP gains, and fresh new markets and player options


    ***
    [this post has been edited and amended about 800+ times, but these are sincere suggestions for the greater balancing and health of the classes and meta, and i think they all would do a great deal towards the holistic betterment of party play, mule abuse, skill obsolescence, class identity and balance. thank you for reading (or re-reading!) and any consideration. excited to participate and discuss them all!]
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
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  20. Zancks
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    Zancks Game Balancer

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    Thanks for the participation so far. Let me clarify what we meant by „content“.

    This whole thread is about class balancing. Yes it can be done by changing skills but it can also be done by adjusting „content“ like boss fights.

    By changing Auf Havens Hitbox in the latest patch we made melee attackers in that fight more viable. We are looking for these kind of content adjustments that serve as a way to balance the classes here.

    General content feedback is always appreciated too but this is not the prime place for it.
     
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