Buff the Red Katana

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Hwaiting, Nov 6, 2017.

?

Should the Red Katana be buffed?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Add Fafnir weapons to the server

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  1. Spooky Business
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    Spooky Business Well-Known Member

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  2. sunny1989
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    sunny1989 Well-Known Member

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    I think buff both RK and pryrope ~imboss

    and also increase the % of Guardian

    make "one hand hero" great again
     
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  3. KrisWu
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    KrisWu Well-Known Member

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    If buffed Red Katana, in the same side Crushed Skull will be useless. So I think buff the skills would be fair to BW/Sword user.
     
  4. huangyeh
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    huangyeh Donator

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    Apparently no one cares about paladins so
     
  5. KrisWu
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    KrisWu Well-Known Member

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    So im the one?
     
  6. DutchyGuy
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    DutchyGuy Well-Known Member

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    Would be rediculous to buff heroes. Paladins is a must though. After that, all other jobs and then heroes/nls and drks
     
  7. Muff
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    Muff GM

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    Buffing the Red Katana would benefit Paladins and Heroes.
     
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  8. DutchyGuy
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    DutchyGuy Well-Known Member

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    There's no such thing as a paladin with sword. That is called a wannabe hero with elements sir
     
  9. YaBoiRawDiggy
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    YaBoiRawDiggy Well-Known Member

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  10. TonberryNite
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    TonberryNite Member

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    I can see your thing about this being a Pre-B.B. server and yet having Pyrope Weapons added in. I unfortunately don’t agree with you though, even though I voted yes. I voted yes because like you said, the Maple Pyrope Sword was only added in during the 4th Anniversary Event the server had. I don’t know how it’s done on here, but who’s to say that during the 5th Anniversary Event that Pyrope Weapons will be brought back? So that would mean that Pyrope Swords are a limited quantity item (When I bought mine and my Pyrope Rohen from the FM last month I think there were maybe 4 clean swords at the time, for upwards of 18m+)


    This would mean that at the same level, a buff for the Red Katana would make it comparable and in some cases, strictly nostalgia based, overall better than the Pyrope in terms of looks only. The Pyrope has a base +Str modifier and a +Acc modifier though. But why bother raising the attack speed of a weapon you’re going to replace later, especially a Level 70 weapon. If you’re 1H+Shield and you’re keeping onto the Red Katana because it has a little bit more speed than a Sparta or a Dragon 1H Sword (The Carabella?) you’re going to get outdamaged by those two in the end because there isn’t a game breaking speed difference in it. Or you’re going to switch from 1H to 2H and then there’s not much point in not using a Stonetooth Sword.

    I think I’m rambling... sorry it’s 5am and I’m tired af.

    tl;dr - I agree buff the Red Katana, only on my paranoia that Pyrope Weapons might not come back for 5th Anniversary. I don’t agree, because there are better weapons out there.
     
  11. Michael
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    Michael Donator

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    Regardless of what the website says or what any server staff has said, this server isn't nostalgic and you're lying to yourself if you believe it is. Pyrope weapons being in the game at all throws nostalgia out the window. Tell me more about the nostalgia you have over the perfect weapons you remember from when you were 12 years old on GMS as well. Tell me more about how you dual or triple logged or more back on GMS, too. We have bosses dropping NX for free and a shop in the FM that sells teleport rocks and ways to skip boats rides... where is the nostalgia? Please, show it to me? The nostalgia in this server exists for when you choose to see it, but the game itself is not nostalgic. If you choose to listen to that Lith Harbor music when you leave Maple Island, if you choose to do PQs to level, if you choose to complete quests... if you choose to make suboptimal options because that's what you did back then. Don't force the rest of us to experience your nostalgia, because we don't force you to experience ours. We enjoy it on our own time.

    The Red Katana has a niche on our server - it's for people who can't afford a Pyrope Sword, or otherwise can't wait for them. It's the same niche that exists for many other weapons as well; the Red Craven is hugely popular because the Dragon Purple Sleeve is rare and many can't afford them or otherwise don't want to wait for them. The White Nisrock is popular because they drop really commonly and it's expensive to make a Shiner Bow/rare to obtain one from Gachapon. If you want to use a 1h sword and you choose to not use the option that requires SI for optimal damage, you have the option of the Red Katana, which is hugely popular, or you can wait for the yearly attempts at a Pyrope Sword for that extra few attack and accuracy. The Red Katana is actually more viable than any of the other counterparts I listed because perfect Pyrope weapons are so much more rare than perfect Dragon Purple Sleeves, Dragon Shiner Bows, etc.

    The only argument I see in this whole thread for buffing the Red Katana that I can fully accept is that it's what you remember using back on GMS, and that option is completely available to you now. Asking for the Red Katana to be equal to best-in-slot is essentially arguing that you want nostalgia to be the best option in end-game situations where you're not experiencing nostalgia anyway. Lastly, if you're considering end-game situations, you don't need accuracy from your sword, source; I have two end-game warriors. Making Red Katana equal in attack to the Pyrope Sword essentially makes Pyrope Sword rare for absolutely no reason.

    I don't think any buff is necessary here. Fafnir items when though?
     
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  12. 87Karlos
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    87Karlos Donator

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    in b4 nx drop, tp rocks, voting and other stuff are removed cause "they are not nostalgic"
     
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  13. Dimitri
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    Dimitri Saint of Horses

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    I've been thinking about this for a while now, but I just don't think buffing the Red Katana fits with this idea of a server we've had since this server was created, and it's not something we should be driving toward. I think that adding any weapon that is not Fafnir is causing this server to be used in ways it was not intended. Despite how everyone feels about Fafnir weapons, I really think that Fafnir weapons are truly the right direction for this server, even though it's not popular.
     
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  14. RoyalCupcake
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    RoyalCupcake Donator

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    I plan on having the Red Katana as end game weapon for my Hero.
     
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  15. Hwaiting
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    Hwaiting Donator

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    I don't understand how bringing the Red Katana in line with the Pyrope sword would force people to experience other's nostalgia. I've proposed several compromises as well, such as having a buffed RK as a rare event weapon, as have other people in this thread.

    Like I've said before, I'm actually a Stonetooth user, I see the Red Katana being weaker than the Pyrope sword as an inconsistency. I do agree with your other points though, we're playing Royals because it's Royals, not because we want old Maple replicated 100%. However, you're also lying to yourself as well if you're not playing Royals partially for the nostalgic, outdated gameplay mechanics and features. Nostalgia and Royals are not mutually exclusive, nor is nostalgia the sole factor.

    I'm okay with the Red Craven versus Dragon Sleeve balance(and Nisrock vs Dragon etc.), that's one of the good parts of pre-bb Maple that Royals should strive to keep in my opinion, as I have acknowledged previously in the original post as well as others. I like pre-bb weapon balance. Classes having a variety of endgame options is good.

    It is correct that the Red Katana plays a role in our server, as I addressed in the original post, there's a balance between RK, Sparta, Carabella, to an extent Night Raven's Wing, Stonetooth, Claymore, and if Reverse/Timeless/Neo Tokyo weapons are ever added, those. There's nothing wrong with that balance. Sword users are cool because they have a vast array of endgame weapons to choose from. It just happens to be my opinion that the Red Katana should stand alongside the Pyrope instead of being secondary to the Pyrope.
    What are your thoughts on the fact that the best weapon for 1h solo heroes is locked behind an anniversary event, when this is not the case for any other class in the game? I think that this kind of weapon unavailability may pose a problem.

    I never used the Red Katana back in GMS.

    Nostalgia is the best option in end game situations in all instances for classes except for 1h solo heroes. The exception is the Pyrope Crow, but the Pyrope Crow has advantages and disadvantages versus other endgame MM weapons. The Pyrope sword is strictly superior to the RK.

    Accuracy will be needed for warriors that want to fight the Showa Boss.

    Lastly, isn't the Pyrope sword's rarity part of what is being addressed in this thread? If Fafnir 2H sword was in the game and objectively superior to the Stonetooth, I would without hesitation argue for the Stonetooth to be buffed up to the Fafnir's level, despite the fact that "Stonetooth already fills a niche, actually would be more viable than the Fafnir because Fafnir is so rare, etc". If Chaos Horntail was in the game, I would immediately argue for it's removal. However, like I addressed in the original post, Pyrope weapons cannot be removed from the game for obvious reasons.

    Plot twist, Fafnir weapons are already in the game, they're just masquerading as Pyrope weapons. Pink Bean confirmed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  16. Michael
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    Michael Donator

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    By changing the weapon balance of the game to favor specific weapons, you aim to put us in the position you are currently in - a weapon you find nostalgic isn't as good as it was back then. That's not nostalgic to me, because when I played, the Red Katana was already essentially entirely replaced by the Lunchbox. We don't have that weapon here, I know, but you're in favor of making a weapon more than its' niche, which isn't the way I remember it, therefore, you're forcing your nostalgia on me.

    In this case, the above is a theoretical person's thoughts, but an entirely plausible situation nonetheless..

    I am not lying to myself in the slightest. I'm not here for nostalgia. I'm here to play a game with mechanics that I like, and play it to the fullest extent. I have done dozens of things on MapleRoyals that I hadn't ever fathomed when I played MapleStory the first time. I was never here to re-experience noob life. I was here to make ridiculously strong characters because now I know how to do that. There is no nostalgia in my reason for being here. If you renamed every single place in Maple, changed every mob's photo, I'd still play. Maybe I'm alone in that, but I barely even remember how it felt to play GMS anymore after all of the private servers I've played. I'm here to not use a Red Katana, because now I'm old enough to understand that it's not best-in-slot.

    Then what's this thread about? Have I missed something here? Are we going to suggest that the Japanese Map also stands up to snuff with the Stonetooth Sword? You're okay with the balances of other lower to higher level options, but not this one? I'm quite confused; how do you accept the balance of every other case that stands to be similar to this one, but not this one?

    This is actually untrue. The Pyrope Crow situation is identical to the Pyrope Sword situation, as the Maple Nishada is a viable endgame option for Marksmen. It is entirely suboptimal, just as the Red Katana is, and both options are entirely outclassed by the Pyrope counterpart as it stands. By your logic, the Maple Nishada should be buffed to be the same attack as the Pyrope Crow. In any case, those options, both the Pyrope Sword and Crow, are outclassed completely by their Dragon counterparts, as all of them hit the same speed tier with Speed Infusion, but the Dragon weapons have a higher base attack.

    And I think that there's nothing wrong with that. There are a plethora of other best-in-slot items that are only accessible from events. A character needs to participate in three events that are annual to fill their ring slots (Halloween, Thanksgiving and Valentines), needs to create a Pilgrim Hat and Chaos for a best in slot hat for Warriors and Buccaneers, needs to create and Chaos Maple Anniversary Scarves for best in slot pendant for any character that isn't a Mage or Shadower, and the Reindeer Nose is a strong, but not theoretically end-game, option for every class as well. Limited availability is unfortunate, but part of being end-game is accepting that what you're seeking is not easy to reach, whether it be due to time-limited event requirements or simply a hell of a lot of grinding.

    Grandpa requires 441 accuracy to be hit 100%. You will never get to that amount, with or without a Pyrope Sword, unless you are hugely suboptimal and monumentally invested in literally every other item in your equipment slots. I'm assuming you still want to use attack Shoes, Capes and Gloves, so here's what you'd need!

    Helmet: 42dex 22luk 67accuracy Zakum Helmet (WS+10% Helmet for Accuracy) - 141.6
    Face: 46dex Maple Leaf (11dex clean with perfect 7/7 +5 Chaoses) - 36.8
    Eye: 31dex 41accuracy White Raccoon Mask (8acc clean with one Eye Acc 30 and 6/6 perfect +5/5 Chaoses) - 65.8
    Pendant: 38dex 38luk Horntail Pendant (13/13 clean with egg and +5/5 Chaoses twice) - 49.4
    Overall: 62dex 39acc Blue Dragon Armor (12/9 clean with WS+10% Overall for DEX) - 88.6
    Earring: 36dex Gold Emerald Earrings (11dex clean with 5 +5dex Chaoses) - 28.8
    Ring Set: 5dex 5luk from Event Rings, and 18dex 18luk Almighty Ring (8/8 clean with 2 +5/5 Chaoses) - 29.9
    Adjusting for Sword Mastery and the perfect 49 accuracy from the sword itself, you'll have 515.3 accuracy - congratulations! That leaves you with a whole 74.3 accuracy that you can mess up on with the above gear to still hit 100%. You can skip the eye accessory and be fine, or use a more reasonable Zakum Helmet perhaps!

    For reference, you need 222 accuracy to hit Grandpa at a 1% chance. I'd like you to find me an endgame warrior that makes it to this number currently. I checked the top 10 Heroes on the Damage Range Thread here and only one Warrior is even over 200 - sunnysundays, who uses a Pyrope Sword and still sits at only 210 accuracy. While you're taking a look at that thread, check for me how many can't reach 177 accuracy with Bless. 177 accuracy is enough to 100% hit Lyka, which is currently the highest accuracy requirement in the game that actually matters. From the top 10, it's one of them. Poor @Jeen .

    Tell me more about how the accuracy matters.

    And I would instead argue that Fafnir should never have been introduced in the first place, but now that it is, it's what the metagame has shifted towards and it's up to us to decide whether to be suboptimal or skew the whole game to compensate instead. It can be argued that Pyrope Weapons should never have been introduced, but it's far too late for that now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
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  17. Hwaiting
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    How is buffing the Red Katana expanding it's role beyond the scope of one handed swords? It's absolutely true that the Red Katana's role would be expanded into the Pyrope sword's niche. The only people that will have this nostalgia forced upon them is Pyrope sword users. Even so, some compromises have been raised, including a buffed RK available only during anniversary event. What are your thoughts on this proposal? It would be entirely cosmetic and innocuous, and would have zero effect on the current state of the game.

    My apologies for misinterpreting your reasons for playing this server then. If the Red Katana were buffed, you'd still be free not to use it. I don't see how buffing the Red Katana affects your gameplay in a pervasive way.

    The Japanese map is balanced versus the Stonetooth sword; the Stonetooth sword is not locked behind an event. I'm entirely okay with pre-big bang balance of weapons, and not Royals balance of RK versus Pyrope, is that not what we're discussing?

    By dismissing nostalgia as a factor in people's reasons for playing this server, as well as nostalgia being a driving factor the dev teams intentions, you've failed to understand many people's perspectives.

    The Maple Nishada should be buffed. Maybe I should start another thread about buffing the Maple Nishada.

    The Pyrope Sword and Crow are superior to the Dragon weapons without Speed Infusion, we agree on this. A solo play will use Pyrope and a party player with access to SI/mule will use Dragon ideally. Both are best in slot end game items.

    Event rings do not replace pre-big bang rings. Pilgrim Hats are pre-big bang, albeit with modified stats, which is fine, Royals has godly system after all. Maple Scarves were in pre-bb kms(ems as well perhaps?), as were Reindeer Noses. As I have previously acknowledged in the original post as well as elsewhere in this thread, I'm entirely fine with these pre-big bang items. Additionally, these items are not weapons, and of all the end game weapons, only the Pyropes are locked behind an event. Best in slot items for more important parts of a players kit should not be locked behind an event, weapons especially. Pendants, rings, and attack helmets are for min-maxing, weapons are not necessarily, as they play a part in leveling towards endgame.

    It's entirely subjective. Accuracy may not be important to you but is important to other people that play this server, solo 1 handed sword users especially. It's similar to how you play Royals for the gameplay, it's hugely important to you but not to others. Grandpa Boss drops some nice earrings and is a formidable boss for warriors. You may not find Gramps important, but others do, some warrior/bucc mains included.

    Maple pops are nice, as an aside, better save those chaos scrolls for cape/shoe/glove instead. We should add the Black Crystal Blade to the server as well.

    In what way does buffing the RK skew the whole game? Buffing the RK has little to no bearing on class vs. class balance. If buffing the Red Katana does skew the whole game, why is the effect bad?

    Please excuse my underdeveloped responses, I should really be focusing on exams lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  18. Michael
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    Michael Donator

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    You just posted that the Maple Nishada should be buffed in comparison to the Maple Pyrope Crow, which is literally asking for the level 64 and 77 Maple Weapons to be closer to, if not on, par with one another.

    Best of luck with this thread, I’m done with it. Not to offend you, but if it’s any indication to how much of a joke this is, a third of your poll votes are memes.
     
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  19. DutchyGuy
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    DutchyGuy Well-Known Member

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    Just accept that this won't happen because if it would, then there sure are alot of other weapons and jobs that need to be buffed. You're saying a maple pyrope 1h is hard to get but i still see them in fm everyday (try finding a crushed skull only available from perion gach that nobody used). I think you should just accept the fact that you have to work harder for some equips i guess. Have a nice day!
     
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