Ban -- to announce or not?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kai, Nov 27, 2018.

?

Would you like to see ban notices being broadcasted?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. Neutral

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  1. runadamsrun
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    runadamsrun Well-Known Member

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    No, I absolutely agree. MapleRoyals is a game, and it could always do with more fun. That being said, it may be just me, but I for one think these announcements would be so much fun. Wouldn't you agree that mmm... chisme builds community? ;) Of course, like other people have said, these would need to be the 101% confidence bans. And also, I would still sincerely feel sympathy towards certain rulebreakers who claim ignorance, of course. (Despite knowing they still deserve it for not reading the T&C, but I guess that's why it's a feeling of sympathy.) But for the others who intentionally do it... kek. Hopefully I'm never on the other side though. *knock on wood*

    Yep. :^)
     
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  2. violaceopes
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    violaceopes Well-Known Member

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    Bring back likes in Ban Appeals, while you're at it. If you're going to purposely make a Roman circus type public spectacle out of rule enforcement, no use doing it half assed.

    This idea seems strange to me from an opsec perspective, but I assume that's already been considered and taken into account.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
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  3. Kai
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    Kai Donator

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    I think we made it clear as to why we removed likes from ban appeal. Apparently to some people (won't mention who, but it's rather obvious if you dig the Feedback section), they think it's an ego boost to the staff handling the appeal. To dispel that kind of nonsense, we decided to remove like (but I must say...the removal took a hit on my post:like ratio. :p )
     
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  4. Noobaholic
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    Noobaholic Well-Known Member

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    100% support :0
     
  5. MoriForest
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    MoriForest Well-Known Member

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    get on my post like ratio level plz nub
     
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  6. TayK
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    TayK Donator

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    i dont think you should broadcast them, instead compile a weekly, (or whatever interval you choose) list of players banned and for what and post it on the forums.
     
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  7. akash
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    akash Well-Known Member

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    I would say yes, announce every single ban and the ACTUAL reason for each of them, suspicious activity, botting, harrassment, etc.

    However, if they make an appeal and they get unbanned, you should certainly announce that they are unbanned as well, as as well perhaps compensate them for each day they were wrongfully banned.

    For example 1hr 2x exp or drop for every week a person has been wrongfully banned (time starting from creation of their ban appeal).
     
  8. Kai
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    Kai Donator

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    This is a good idea too! Perhaps very possible when we do some internal restructuring. Will keep this on the plate for discussion.
     
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  9. attenuate
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    attenuate Donator

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    I disagree.

    Drawing upon parallels with Bentham/Foucault's works on the panopticon, I think the whole point of announcing bans in game is to instill a sense of constant social regulation (i.e. that the GMs are always watching) to deter players from breaking the rules of the game from the onset. The disadvantage, I reckon would be its lack of effectiveness on those who actually know the inner workings of things here and are bent on flouting the rules. Nevertheless, this is a beneficial feature so I voted yes.

    On the flip side, presenting a compiled list of bans on a regular basis is bad for it freely provides the latter group with information that they want - the number of/type of offence that the staff team is focusing on at any point in time. Recognising that the staff team is lean, this valuable piece of information may instead work against what they may be trying to achieve at a certain period of time. If the point of releasing the compiled list of bans is to justify to the community that the staff team is doing their work, I urge that the list be presented less regularly, say once every month or so.
     
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  10. TayK
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    TayK Donator

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    one of da issues i see with in game announcements of bans is how the chatbox will be filled to the brim with banter/trolling about who was just recently banned

    as the above mentioned (as i did in my first reply) was that the interval that the announcements are released is definitely something to be determined

    in game broadcasts of bans just seems so ridiculous, but a post every so often of who was recently banned seems like a much more reasonable idea
     
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  11. DaggerEyes
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    DaggerEyes Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea!
    A good way to remind people not to break any rules.
     
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  12. itsKate
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    itsKate Well-Known Member

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    I personally voted No on this issue. I don't believe this idea would be beneficial for the community and the server image as a whole ..

    Firstly, there must be so many bans happening on a daily basis, in addition with the autoban notices getting added in the near future, the chat will see a lot of people getting banned. I highly doubt this will be a big issue though, since there can always be a command to toggle it off implemented, or just some getting used to, but still might look bad on a third person point of view.

    The bigger problem would be, I reckon, how the community itself would react to these notices. Almost everyone points out the educational value in here, thinking very optimistically and saying that people will pay attention to these notices and learn from other's mistakes and improve themselves. Which can happen, of course, but the thing I'd imagine happen would be 1 ban notice followed by a dozen smegas which involves mockery and shame about the person that got banned. Even though if we assumed the number of people who improve themselves to be higher, we would all agree which type of group would be roaring the loudest. I don't think a community where people shame and make fun of people getting banned (deserved or not) is a good image for the server. I think the community is so on-the-edge-of-their-seats for something like this that they'll jump straight into it with smegas after smegas to actually consider this as a meso sink ... Report abuse posts got removed cos of the drama surrounding the community and people reporting/getting reported, the Like function on Ban Appeals got removed because the community loved a joke or a feisty answer on a banned member and enjoyed seeing others being shamed or made fun of, then this would just be the ultimate pleasure. I can easily understand how the Yes to No ratio on this poll would be 90% to 10% but I just don't think, for the server itself, this ever being a good idea. If we were a smaller server, then perhaps but considering how big this server is, I can only imagine this ending badly.

    Another reason considered is that this would show there's Staff doing their jobs or Staff patrolling around. Is this the way to go to show the Staff are doing their job ? If there's a lack of Staff v Players/Community interaction, there are so many different ways to improve that. A simple "Hi" in FM or a broadcast asking how is everyone doing or so many other things .. I'm not even talking about things like GM Events which are more time consuming. And it can't be about getting more rule-berakers off the streets because the number of people getting banned on each day would be exactly the same, the only difference being it will be broadcasted. This is not the place to discuss what could be done to show Staff activeness but I think this is a place to discuss: is this really the only way ? Or the right way ?

    I also don't think showing the daily/weekly/monthly Ban Logs is such a great idea either .. I think transparency between Staff and Players is important but I don't think Bans is the right place for that transparency. Transparency would be good for things like, how the staff handle problems, bans, issues, how do they implement the rules, how do they act on it, what are their thought processes on the improvement of the server. We have appropriate channels for that as well such as Ban Appeals where we see how GMs handle rule-breakers and how they process it. I think, as the community, we should trust the Staff to make the right judgement when it comes to banning people and see how professionally they handle or stand behind their bans. I could see, if the Ban Logs were to be released, people would be all over them, the next thing would be releasing the proof as well because it will be highly demanded and will put the Staff in such terrible position where they show the people they banned but not the proof ...

    When it comes to educating the new people or people who don't read or don't know how to read, well I don't think it's the Staff's job to babysit each and every member here and tell everyone individually that they should read the T&C. They have already done enough to get the rules reached out to literally every single person at first contact where it's clearly stated upon registration, and if they don't read it, the blame is on them. If anything, we, as the community, should encourage more on forums and in game as well when we see or meet someone who hasn't read the rules and has a potential of violating them. I think that's the least we can do instead of expecting Staff handle every little thing and then complaining in the future how they can't keep up with the workload.

    This server has had so many moments where the server image had cost the server badly ... I know we all want to have fun and play our thing our own way but I still want to care about this server/community and how it is seen ... I don't personally think this will be a good idea but I could also see, due to the high demand for it, being implemented. Feel free to comment on my post as I'd love to hear more ..

    <33
     
  13. Evan
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    Evan Donator

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    Most small towns have a section of their newspaper specifically for that. The caveat is I think they are only allowed to be posted after they appear in court- but I don't think a list could be made up to date any sooner than that anyways.

    I'm sure Matt could generate a condensed list of "X RWTers", "Y Hackers", etc that get banned each week, but a concern with announcing specific characters is it allows hackers to zone in on exactly what got them banned, but something like "A player was banned for hacking- guess they coudln't hack it" (I mean, I personally would make it cheesy and punny but thats me)
     
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  14. Muff
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    Muff GM

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    I think it would be better to have a weekly report on player bans, probably on the forums. My local law enforcement agency does this. They are required to report to the public on what crimes have been committed and why law enforcement was involved. Some agencies do list names (only if the offender is over 18) but I think that's unnecessary. A daily or weekly report on what bans occurred would suffice. I don't think releasing their names is 'shaming' the rule breakers, I just don't see it as necessary.
     
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  15. Matt
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    Matt Administrator

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    Not really, Kai just brought this up for discussion here by his own accord.

    I personally think although ban announcements in game would be funny/interesting at first, they'd probably get quite annoying quickly and we'd end up needing to include it into a toggle command anyway. The issue regarding only 1 character name being broadcast and not the player's entire list of characters may make it not so effective, and listing all characters in a broadcast could get spammy. Those reasons are probably also why Nexon changed from doing ban broadcasts to doing weekly/monthly ban lists on a web page instead.
     
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  16. Kur0Kishi
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    Kur0Kishi Donator

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    Hypothetically speaking, for me it would be something along the lines of, "fuck yes, those Guild fucknuts finally got caught! Serves their arrogant asses right!"

    Hypothetically.
     
  17. Kai
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    Kai Donator

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    How is that different compared to if we release a weekly or monthly list of banned players?
     
  18. Kur0Kishi
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    Kur0Kishi Donator

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    Delayed gratification.
     
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  19. Shnang
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    Shnang Donator

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    Inb4 you see your own friends and guildmates banned. It's never pleasant on the receiving end.
    This point needs to be addressed too, not only does the player have to go through the inconvenience of getting banned, but his reputation and name would need to be built again from scratch. People are quick to judge,associate and label (exhibit A as seen above).

    My point is, will this ban message system simple expose small time nameless hackers, or give another excuse for the community to find another reason to hate each other? I still stand by the point that only certain types of bans (hacks, vacs) should be acceptable to announce, but let's really consider if you really want to announce that xxx has been banned for account sharing (or RWT) for that matter.
     
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  20. akash
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    akash Well-Known Member

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    There is no difference, as its just less "hassle" for them to jeer.

    They are playing in game and see notice. Immediately begin smegaing about it.

    Or, they are playing in game, and then take a look on the forums. See who got banned, and then smega about it.
    Maybe they won't be as tempted to smega immediately because it might be a hassle to swap from forums to game or w.e.
     
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