Are nostalgic servers still nostalgic, 15 years on?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PurpleCranium, Nov 14, 2021.

  1. PurpleCranium
    Offline

    PurpleCranium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    6
    IGN:
    Shabby
    Hiya all,
    For me, at least, the following is a recurring theme: right around Halloween / Christmas, I get filled with this yearning to play old games, maple primarily among them. Like most old players, the options available no longer seem quite so enticing. The official server hardly even resembles the same game I remember from my childhood, few nostalgic servers have high enough population densities, and at any rate, their content hardly changes over the years.
    Royals has, in so far as I can tell, come a very long way by the standards of private servers, even still. I find that almost 15 years on, I barely get a drop of nostalgia out of gameplay before wanting to quit again. I was really happy to see new content like LHC or Neo Tokyo, but honestly, it's not enough to make me feel like playing this game is anything more than a fleeting fancy.

    I'm assuming, that so many years after the big bang update, most players who will come back for a nostalgic server, have already done so, and perhaps have left and come back several times. I can't speak for new players who never knew the old maple, of course. But for many of us, at least for ex royal-ers I've talked to, there's a distinct lack of freshness to these types of servers (not just royals, of course).

    So here's my question to you, fellow players (and perhaps staff?), besides bringing back more areas and bosses, what could be done to make the feeling of nostalgia 'more fresh' as it were? do you even identify with the feeling I'm describing at all? Personally I've been playing private servers on and off since before the launch of Royals, so that's definitely a part of it, but I don't think I'm so unique.

    One of the ideas that I keep having every time I think about this is that Royals should have another server, reboot like perhaps, or just something with higher difficulty ratings, no leeching, etc... an environment that would facilitate social interactions and so on. I realize, however, that due to the scope of the player base, splitting the server into two would take away so much from what makes royals what it is (or indeed any other server, heck even the official server is struggling). To mitigate those problems, you could have some fashion of cross world trading to ensure the markets remain stable (barring certain items, like WS or CS and so on)... cross world PQ and so on. But I realize that that's a whole lot of work for something that might not even work out in the end.

    An alternative idea is to use the same server, but allow the creation of hard-mode characters, characters that would be under permanent debuffs of EXP, MESO and DROP rates, even damage, accuracy and so on. These players could likewise be unable to gain EXP from leech, or be nerfed to the point where it'd be pointless... in turn, they'd gain boons like medals and or other blessings and generally be recognizable as hard-mode players to other players for prestige, to boost participation and so on.

    Anyways, thoughts?
     
    Tiffaux, Amaranthen and Becca like this.
  2. Becca
    Offline

    Becca GM

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Messages:
    3,083
    Likes Received:
    4,213
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Canada
    Country Flag:
    IGN:
    Becca
    Level:
    18x
    Guild:
    Staff
    My thought process might be a bit more nostalgia-ey moreso than actual ideas so I apologize for that lol but reading this definitely brought out a few memorable experiences I had as a kid on GMS.

    To be completely honest with you, I think no matter what gets added, we (private servers in general) will never come close to that fresh nostalgia feeling that everybody at some point experienced with MapleStory, and capture that feeling for a long duration. Mainly because everyone's nostalgic experiences are widely different.

    I was really young during Pre BB, my brothers got me into it (10+ years older than me) and I think I was 6-7 when I beta tested GMS along with them. I don't have a whole lot of memories of my own but I remember my brothers racing against one another and partying up to grind everywhere. They got pretty far too, I think when GMS's prime main level before CPQ was still around 25-45 my brothers were already level 80+ with no 3rd job grinding in the Dungeon on Tauromacis / Wild Kargos. I was more of a do my own thing kind of kid, I could barely read and I memorized what each area was with the Taxi by earning enough mesos as I could, and randomly choosing a destination lmao. My source of prime entertainment? Getting enough mesos to ride the ship to Orbis when that was available and playing chicken with the Balrogs on channel 1 and dying because I was a level 15 magician lol. I loved every minute of it just as much as my brothers did, even though I didn't do the same thing they did.
    Eventually I took it a bit more seriously, but during the prime time of GMS I just wasted my time and didn't really make any progress past level 53 lol

    I can see some similarities to WoW and MapleStory since they've technically been live for the same amount of years, and are completely different from their release days. I was really excited to re-experience the difficulty of leveling up when Classic WoW was announced. For those of you who played it at all: I only really started playing around the end of tBC but I remember the difficulty curb and over time every year, I'd just farm my mounts, do my Mythic +s and Raiding on repeat and watch the difficulty disappear. I remember when Classic dropped in 2019 it was so lively, and full of hope and very refreshing as someone who steer cleared from WoW private servers (always got shut down gg) and genuinely got to re-live that feeling during Classic's relaunch.

    Over time, the meta developed whereas back in the day nobody really knew wtf they were doing lol they were just having fun and spending 7-8+ hours in a Raid. But the second Classic launched; I think it was 6-7 days after somebody already reached level 60 and overtime that meta slowly seeped into everyone and suddenly not everyone was welcome at raiding, or end game dungeon farming. You suddenly needed to follow the exact guides for talent trees, and if you complained you were kicked out and since word travels fast, other guilds on the same Server wouldn't take you either, or it would be another rinse and repeat of what happened in a different guild. Suddenly, people were selling level boosts by running them through low level dungeons, and before you knew it the people who genuinely played for that crisp new refreshing feeling; left.

    It only took a year and a half for that to deteriorate into what it is now which isn't pretty, especially with the release of tBC in the middle of this year. I don't even know what happened since I never bothered to give it a chance yet and I probably won't. But from what I've seen people were unhappy with the level boosts purchased with real money and in-game purchases for unique mounts and stuff.

    I think in the same way that is also MapleStory's fate. It was fun because it was new and nobody really knew what they were doing back then. But after years and years of having private servers trying to create and capture that old feeling, and tackling the disadvantages of having free NX available everyday (HP washing, easy access Gacha for WS and CS, etc.) even those Servers stop feeling 'fun' and 'fresh' and dwindle away over time.

    I don't think there truly is a genuine way to chase that high and hold onto it for long term ever again.

    With all of that said though, obligatory take this with a grain of salt and speaking as a player, not a Staff member. We'll always try our best to bring new content to the table regardless.

    Great question! ~f2
     
  3. BearJew
    Offline

    BearJew Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2020
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    13
    Gender:
    Male
    Country Flag:
    IGN:
    BearJew
    Level:
    50
    the game loses nostalgia every time you go deeper and deeper into the lategame
     
  4. Friend
    Offline

    Friend Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    30
    Gender:
    Male
    IGN:
    tamirtov
    Level:
    200
    imo, the nostalgic part will decrease every time you play the game, cuz thats how nostalgic works.

    as for the casual playstyle turning into competitive one as content getting aged problem, i think this is just how the game is designed to be. as long as pq and bosses will have the option to min\max to get best rewards it will always be like that. or give good rewards (mesos) for casual playstyle like completing quests and exploring the world.

    and as for the the freshness problem, i think this is exactly why the other "create a new world" thread exists on feedback section, and personally i replied there with an offer of my own. tl;dr yearly event of a new world which in the end will be merged into the extisting world.
     
  5. PurpleCranium
    Offline

    PurpleCranium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2016
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    6
    IGN:
    Shabby
    I had that same experience with the classical reboots of other games, like runescape for example. I was so terribly excited to do PVP in the old wildy, but not more than a year into the launch of OSRS, the arena was dominated by maxed out pures, replete with only the most optimal equipment and tactics. Still, it took longer for a game like OSRS to lose that nostalgic feeling, maybe because leveling takes longer, or maybe because the game almost compels you to do many of the quests.

    There's one thing about your hypothesis (so emboldened) that makes me frown; To this day, I still enjoy playing Chess, by that I mean, here's this social, competitive game, though repetitive by all appearances. It's not just Chess, there's plenty of games like Poker as another example, which I still enjoy, and this is so despite the fact that these games don't really receive 'updates' or new content like MMORPGS do. Clearly, some games don't really lose that elusive 'high' private servers and classical reboots attempt to capture with MMO's. I realize the differences between the two types of games are vast, but it makes me wonder what we can learn from those other games and implement in a game like Royals.

    Why Chess feels fresh every time, IMO is because despite simp
    le appearances, it is in fact the very opposite of repetitive, it's engaging at a very personal level and is very involving socially. It's complexity cannot be fully grasped (as the number of total positions on the board is weeeeelll beyond what the human mind can phatom). If I try to compare the evolution (or devolution in this case) of MMO's versus games like Chess on these factors alone, what I see is that, while complex, they all eventually reach a sealing, typically at endgame, where the complexity curve falls dramatically, to the point where a mere handful of activities remain (and even then, they're very repetitive once you get through them 'enough' times). On the point of social involvement, with the advent of guides for everything including how to breath between keystrokes to maximize speed, training options which are not at all social-friendly and so on, that feeling that, I at least had during maple's prime is gone. As for that personal involvement? if I'm being completely honest, by the time I destroyed what must of been the millionth skele on my bishop on the path towards level infinity which was really only around 170, or not dying during zakum or horntail for the hundredth time with my hero just because you can't suck that badly after trying so many times, I can't say that I feel terribly involved as a non automaton entity.

    Which brings me to the conclusion that, in order to make these beloved childhood games more appealing, the formula can't really be about more content that follows the old patterns. I think Royals has been around long enough, and indeed private servers have been around long enough, for some experimentation into re-imagining the experience of the old content in a new fashion. Obviously creating a new world can supply a short term solution, but it is only short term, and I don't think that that's truly going to change anything, and perhaps even damage the server's health. It's hard though, to feel competitive in a game where there's already a significant player base at end game levels. It's hard to socialize when there are training options that render activities like PQs almost completely moot - and there's almost no venue what so ever within which to cultivate competition, besides, you know, having only the bestest of items (which could've been given freely for all we know) or being of a high enough level (which could likewise been achieved via means rather lacking in sportsmanship).

    GMS sort of found a way to increase game complexity by creating link skills and blessing and so on that made it more rewarding to try out other job classes and indeed, later they pretty much connected every other bit of content to this facet of the game, like the legion system. They added difficulty levels for different bosses and so on and so forth, but by that point, the social aspects of the game were so dead you had to be something of an autist to just solo through much of the game like that.

    Anyways, I've rambled on for long enough.

    Read the thread just now, I feel even less confident that splitting the server into two is the right idea. In it's abstract though, the idea of starting a new every year is something that could solve some of the ills I've described in the above segment, albeit indirectly. I wonder if it would be possible to super-impose this idea on top of the existing server, thereby avoiding the need to split into two. Instead of having the option to play in hard-mode, you'd choose to play in competitive mode, and there'd be enough barriers between competitive mode and normal mode players to make the need for a second server superficial.

    For example, trade and drops (loot or player drops) could be inclusive to competitive players only, so as to avoid contamination of items from the normal mode market. They'd likewise have permanent debuffs as I suggested in my original post. And some sort of system in place that clearly distinguishes between players of the two different modes. Like an extra medal or something.

    All in all, aside from the bit about trade, I don't think that the programming aspect would be too demanding, but I honestly dunno. Just another idea to bounce in the hopes that something eventually comes out of these discussions.

    EDIT: You could likewise add 1-2 channels to the existing server that are exclusive for competitive mode players, that could further facilitate the experience that you'd otherwise have with a brand new server, while not actually splitting the server into two.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
    ilyssia and Becca like this.
  6. Rhynhardt
    Offline

    Rhynhardt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2019
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    535
    Country Flag:
    IGN:
    Rhynhardt
    Level:
    1
    I might be the minority regarding this but the reason I personally downloaded mapleroyals was because it was a specific snapshot of a specific time that I wanted to re-experience. The greatest quality is the fact the server isn't wiped/doesn't close down, so you have essentially a cup you can fill over time, at your own pace, like a self-rpg.

    As we expand the content to extend the life of the game, the point feels lost to me, you're essentially competing with what other servers do better, the only thing really keeping you afloat is the servers longevity. I'll probably come on and play again (once my apq mule stuff gets sorted) when I feel the itch again but yeah, just my two cents.
     
    PurpleCranium and Becca like this.
  7. Becca
    Offline

    Becca GM

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2014
    Messages:
    3,083
    Likes Received:
    4,213
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Canada
    Country Flag:
    IGN:
    Becca
    Level:
    18x
    Guild:
    Staff
    I completely resonate with that too. For me it's hitting 200 and I think that's why I've been prolonging my level 200 because I'd feel like I'd accomplish my goal and it was something I missed out on back when MapleStory was still considered 'good.' I fear I would most likely not bother coming back and remaking characters, and only stick to Staff duties if that were the case. At that point my experience(s) could be vastly different to the knowledge I've known since I wouldn't be playing the game anymore. I guess it's a mental block to keep me trapped here leveling a bunch of characters at once lol

    One of the things that drew me in was the longevity and how nothing's been wiped aside from 2013. All of my old items are still there, and old characters frozen in different time periods.

    I find it odd though but I have nostalgic memories of GMS and also Royals too back in 2014 mainly. I was always in and out and only really would stick for several months after 2017, but 2014 was probably the best experience I had on here and I wanted to always try to capture that feeling and to hold onto it.

    I can't agree or disagree that other servers are handling our quirks better because during the time(s) I've played on other servers it still paled in comparison for me. With that said though, everything always has room for improvement as I like to keep an open mind. I'm not trying to be biased or simply ignore the elephant(s) in the room surrounding Royals as I have been here for several years and I have seen countless controversies, changes, etc. I'm just stating that has been my experience whenever I've tried branching out here and there, and I usually still find the same issue in those servers that some players find Royals has as well: capturing the attention of new players.
    One server could force new players to do quests to level up instead of grinding which could make leveling feel slower, another could be 8x and have everything fly by within hours of game play. It's really just a matter of preference since this is a game, and games are supposed to be fun and relaxing and an entertainment source to give our smol monkey brains that hit of dopamine we're constantly craving. To each their own, as opinions are everyone's preferred stance on the current outlook of things in general.

    I apologize if it feels like I was targeting you, the quoting feature feels aggressive sometimes lol
     
  8. Rhynhardt
    Offline

    Rhynhardt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2019
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    535
    Country Flag:
    IGN:
    Rhynhardt
    Level:
    1
    Just to clarify this isn't a dig on the admin's decision making. You're trying to keep a tight niche while modernizing to be competitive with these carnival centered private servers. I'd personally just stick to my guns, keep some of the balance changes, and make it more starter player friendly, holding the end game grind in the 160+ region when you have a decent amount of 4th job skills. I feel the server would benefit more if they focused more on the front end rather than end game content.
     
  9. Cooler
    Offline

    Cooler Donator

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    725
    Country Flag:
    Guild:
    Treasure
    the way ps stay relevant and afloat is counter to the time capsule nostalgia everyone wants sadly. im not dreamy in saying, yes, a perfect nostalgia server is possible. but nobody would really want it.

    what's good about the ps is preserving the gameplay when most generally agree it was at its creative and entertaining peak, just before BB. what's also good is the hindsight qol we can now fairly apply, ponder, and measure out after being able to pinpoint issues, experiment, and get fair and balanced community feedback, that isn't vastly "off model" of the original game, ie, improvements that are in the spirit of the model game itself, not outside its limitations, but improvements it needed from within. using this philosophy, you can inject post BB content into the limitations of the 2d platformer and it can feel authentic and nostalgic.

    to me the only problem is other meta mechanics that are also churning along side the ps/nostalgia that keep it running: v2w, gacha, hp washing (and by that i mean all aspects: that the glitch is allowed, that some classes need to, and the leech meta it births, and how that leech meta impacts the economy), min/maxing (infinite maple weapons, elemental weapons--which reinforce all the leech metas above), mule-ability, (i think two simultaneous accounts max should be the limit, if any), and how power creep in custom eq and the ubiquity of surplus att potions control/demand the meta, and diminish class skills.

    obviously, obviously, the negatives i listed are intrinsic now to the way the game runs and is played. should they? i dont think they should and i think deep down people would get much more out of a game that doesn't hinge on a lottery make or break economy (make or break when scrolling is fine, but vote>nx>gach>profit for no effort isn't good), and fine tuning hp for classes to barely survive by the skin of their teeth w/o pets (pets unable to fully heal you, or only heal mp if youre non mage, hp if youre mage, just some suggestions) and more importantly without washing, and giving more new game+ perks i think adds to an overall truer spirit of the game.

    but yes, a nostalgia ps is certainly still possible, despite the qol and creature comforts of today, but i dont expect it to be as popular as the v2w, leech, solo boss for profit with mules pipeline economy singularity thats been created
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021 at 8:23 PM
  10. Succubus
    Offline

    Succubus Donator

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2015
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    1,522
    IGN:
    Succubus
    Guild:
    Design
    MapleRoyals: I'm gonna hit 'em in the nostalgia.

    Me: Ah yes. MapleRoyals, a server that'll take me back to the good ol' days. I remember the times when you'd grind at Kerning Square, Windraiders, Wolf-spiders, Harps, Gobies, Newts, Golems, Vikings, Death Teddies, Galloperas, Himes, etc. Wait, you mean to tell me these places aren't a thing anymore? Oh nice.. nice. What about HPQ? KPQ? LPQ? OPQ? CPQ? LMPQ? Dead? Guess I'll make a couple mules so I can finish them myself. Matter of fact, might as well make a mule for everything so I can solo all the content.

    Also Me: HP Washing? Wait.. I think I heard something about that back when I used to play the official server. Pretty sure only the rich Korean kids did that. Even then.. I have no idea how it works. It's mandatory in this server atm? 1000 Days of AP resets here I come. This is why I've only ever played mages.

    It's Me Again: Well.. At least I can still talk to my friends and maybe make some more in the FM like other private servers used to let me do. The FM button takes me to the lounge now? Nice.. but where'd all the people go? Why is it still dead even though ~1k players are online? Even at ~2k was anyone really ever there?

    Remember Me?: Okay.. nvm I'm just gonna go merch or something. Wait.. a 2B coin? WS/CS are 500m? You can't trade items for 1 meso off to reduce the tax? Tax is the same in shop AND in 1:1 trades? Why the fuck are there so many shops open in every channel and FM room? Oh right, mules exist.

    Guess Who? Me!: Well. At least I can make some friends. Oh nice, there's someone on the front page streaming MapleRoyals. Maybe I'll check them out and say hello! GAH.. Who's this stream-sniping asshole summon bagging everyone? Ugh nevermind. I'm out.

    Aha, Me = Still Here: Screw it. I'm just gonna play for fun. Idfc about all this meta shit. I just want to do what I used to. Let's see.. This skill I remember using. Wait wtf, I don't remember it doing this. Why.. is this different too? What are all these new places I've never seen before? Was this even in the original game?.. Is Royals based on GMS, KMS, JMS, CMS, MSEA, or MTW? I'm so lost.

    No One Else, But Me: Off Topic: WHY ARE ALL THE CHAIRS/EFFECTS SO FUCKING BIG? I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING.

    Jokes aside, at least the NX is permanent and free. I can play The Sims here. Also, I'm surprised that there isn't some sort of RP guild / channel thing going on (not that I'd have the time or effort to be participating in it). That's basically the only reason games like GTA5 stay alive after having been around for so long. *Hint*

    The social aspect of the game is in dire need of work (not the gameplay). :)
    (Games like Maple need replay-ability, but the reality is everyone's stuck trying to make their one character powerful instead of trying the other 10+ or revisiting older content because it's no fun for a higher leveled player.)
     
    Shnang likes this.
  11. TN Laxus
    Offline

    TN Laxus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    140
    Gender:
    Male
    Country Flag:
    IGN:
    DonAugur
    Level:
    166
    Guild:
    Resignation
    I quitted Royals like a year ago but I'm considering coming back.

    I want to share the main reason why I quitted (cause it has some real value) and the reason why I will come back.

    WHY I QUIT? Cause I realized at one point that the only thing left for me to do was sell leech for aproximately 100 hours of my life in order to buy the required end game gear, and a game in which the only way to get to end game and be able to join strong bossing parties was through 100+ leech is not worth playing. I prefer spending those 100 hours in other games or working on my business.

    WHY AM I COMING BACK? Because of the christmas event. The party quests, the theme, the people, the events, killing snowman, eveything that brings a community playing fun games together that do not requiere you to have the 100+ hour leech weapon. And that's exactly what I want from MapleRoyals, to stop making late game unachieveable and focus on creating content that requires skill and practice to get through, not gear.

    Killing a boss should requiere gearing? Yes. But that's all it requieres. The skill lvl requierement is non existant.

    One other thing that I would love was added are more jump quests, custom ones or make the current jump quests more useful. And I've written about this a lot of times, rewards for completing content like Party Quests, Bosses, or Hard Jump Quests shouldn't be gear or money, it should be something that is irreplaceable and lasts forever, which is... NX Gear, Aesthetics, Cool looking Medals, Chairs, Mounts, Effects. So many things that people would actually want to get and showoff to eveybody.

    If more mechanical content is added into the game, fun storylines, jump quests, party quests that, again, only require skill and not power, that would help A LOT.
     
    UrbanJuggernaut likes this.

Share This Page